Cheap tires with ALOT of tread or Good tires with less?

They are not even close.

On the knockoffs, the sidewalls are paper thin, the compound is rock hard, nowhere near as many sipes, and the sipes on the center rib are straight cut instead of zig zag pattern, so even less lateral performance. The Altimax knock offs (Wanli, Sunny) offer significantly poorer performance than the Altimax, and I've seen them wear out much quicker than the General (even though the compound is harder...)

Look closely and you'll see the difference:

General

ge_altimax_arctic_ci1_l.jpg


Sunny and Wanli

sn3860.jpg
funny thing is, my Wanlis were used for 20k (as far as i know, maybe more) before i got them. i've used them all summer, and have put about 25k total since i've had them, and there's still tons of tread. the compound isn't even that bad so i don't know what you're talking about

@mig0s: i got them from a friend. he was selling is cavalier to a buddy for a derby, and at the time i had no name (like legit, no brand on the tire) winters that were done. so i traded my tires, gave him 5 bucks for his good tires and his Z24 wheels. and now i have a decent set of wheels and tires on my sunfire.

all that being said. i'm currently shopping for some good tires because my life is worth more than chinese tires. however, if you're stuck, no money to spare really, it's better than bald summers. in my opinion what it comes down to is where you drive, how you drive, and how much you drive. i live in the country where often roads aren't even plowed and i don't really have issues with my wanlis. so you city folk with your nicely plowed roads shouldn't have much of an issue.

also, how do you define a cheap tire? is motomaster considered cheap? is it because it's a chinese tire that it's automatically cheap? is it the price that makes them automatically bad? i'd love to know
 
funny thing is, my Wanlis were used for 20k (as far as i know, maybe more) before i got them. i've used them all summer, and have put about 25k total since i've had them, and there's still tons of tread. the compound isn't even that bad so i don't know what you're talking about

@mig0s: i got them from a friend. he was selling is cavalier to a buddy for a derby, and at the time i had no name (like legit, no brand on the tire) winters that were done. so i traded my tires, gave him 5 bucks for his good tires and his Z24 wheels. and now i have a decent set of wheels and tires on my sunfire.

all that being said. i'm currently shopping for some good tires because my life is worth more than chinese tires. however, if you're stuck, no money to spare really, it's better than bald summers. in my opinion what it comes down to is where you drive, how you drive, and how much you drive. i live in the country where often roads aren't even plowed and i don't really have issues with my wanlis. so you city folk with your nicely plowed roads shouldn't have much of an issue.

also, how do you define a cheap tire? is motomaster considered cheap? is it because it's a chinese tire that it's automatically cheap? is it the price that makes them automatically bad? i'd love to know

Realistically, if you drive accordingly, you can get by with a good set of all seasons.

40 years ago people used to get by with 6000lbs open diff RWD cars, and skinny all season tire with inner tubes and they managed.

But it's not 1969 anymore, our cars perform better and so do our tires.

As for what tires are good or not, it depends on what basis of comparison you've had. Some people rock cheap tires all the time and think others are stupid to pay for a set of proper tires, because they're never spent enough time behind the wheel of a car equipped with good tires through a various range of conditions. Nobody who has spent a winter driving a car with a set of studded Continental ice tires, or Nokian Hakka 5's, is going to be arguing that Wanli's are decent in the winter.

How do I define cheap? = an inexpensive tire that doesn't have any value. I have nothing against a product that has good value. The Goodyear Nordic aren't too bad, so are the General Altimax Artic, . Both tires are relatively inexpensive, perform well, last long, have a resale value, and offer a certain level of safety. The cheap chinese knock offs (triangle, sunny, wanli, etc), don't offer performance, longevity, or safety, resale value.

The only thing they offer is a low price. For me personally, a low sale price with no underlying value is worthless. But there's alot of people (it seems you're one of them), that associate a low price with value. That's fine and I respect that, but don't be bewildered if others think your Wanlis are garbage, and don't come trying to convince me that they're any good.

Also, running your winter tires in the summer is a fail.
 
They are not even close.

On the knockoffs, the sidewalls are paper thin, the compound is rock hard, nowhere near as many sipes, and the sipes on the center rib are straight cut instead of zig zag pattern, so even less lateral performance. The Altimax knock offs (Wanli, Sunny) offer significantly poorer performance than the Altimax, and I've seen them wear out much quicker than the General (even though the compound is harder...).

Also, once the knock offs wear out to about 50%, alot of the sipes dissapear and the tire looks more like an all-season than a winter tire. The General on the other hand, maintains its sipage until the tire is nearly bald.

Look closely and you'll see the difference:

General

ge_altimax_arctic_ci1_l.jpg


Sunny and Wanli

sn3860.jpg

Thanks once again, you know EVERYTHING there is to know about everything in the world.

As I previously stated, They are almost the same pattern as General. ALLLLLMMMMOOOOOSSSSSTTTTTT. Obviously they aren't the same, they legally can't be. They are made cheaper, to be sold as, cheaper. AAAALLLLLMMMMOOOOOSSSSTTTTTT. I worked with both tires for over 2 years, and I'm telling you from personal experience with both tires and with all the clients reviews.

AAAALLLLMMMMOOOOOSSSTTTTT.
 
Nobody who has spent a winter driving a car with a set of studded Continental ice tires, or Nokian Hakka 5's, is going to be arguing that Wanli's are decent in the winter.

Really?
Cause I just did. Once again, I've used all. Hakka's are over rated and overpriced.
Obviously the cheaper tires aren't as good as the more expensive ones, but there's still an advantage to tires that are used 50% or more, no matter what the brand.

And comparing studded tires to non? Really?
 
As for the original debate on cheap new vs higher quality used, my answer is neither.

After just one winter of use, the heat cycling a tire goes through hardens the compound. Even if the tires lost 10% of their tread, the heat cycling can significantly reduce performance. So it's not just how much tread is left, the compound also matters.

My problem with cheap tires is they offer piss poor performance all the time (wet-dry-snow-ice), and they don't last long.

My problem with used winter tires, is that they are only really good until there's about 60% of the tread left. After that, they're about as good as a cheap new tire (generally speaking, of course there's difference with make and model of the tire). However, you may enjoy better wet-dry performance with a used higher quality tire.

I always run my winter tires for two winter and then sell them and buy new ones...

Typical salesman's pitch imo.

Don't buy intelligently, buy what i have in stock.

Prices keep going up, and rebates are low to non-existant. Not surprising when there is a law guaranteeing profits.


Btw, i don't mean you personally, but the general market as a whole
 
Typical salesman's pitch imo.

Don't buy intelligently, buy what i have in stock.

Prices keep going up, and rebates are low to non-existant. Not surprising when there is a law guaranteeing profits.


Btw, i don't mean you personally, but the general market as a whole

I don't officially work in the auto industry anymore, but I still have some contacts and do some stuff on the side for fun, because I like it.

Just a few FYI's and anyone in the tire industry will tell you the same

- all my suppliers have 10x more stock on cheap chinese shit and the profit margins on the chinese stuff is much higher.
- Suggesting higher quality more expensive tires = less sales and less $$$$
- Chinese tires don't last as long, so there's more potential for repeat business

Trust me, selling chinese tires is alot more profitable than selling the good stuff. The tire business is volume based, and most tire suppliers make as much money on a 80$ Triangle, than a 125$ Michelin, except you need less capital to finance chinese inventory... If a tire seller is suggesting you go with a higher end tire, you should listen.

And btw, I don't even carry three out of the fourth tires I recommended (nokian, goodyear nordic, continental studded ice) but I unfortunately have access and could sell you any of the cheapo chinese stuff I hate.

Everything I said is true. I'm not saying people should get rid of their tires every two years, but it is true that they have significantly less grip once they wear down to half the tread.

From a purely financial point of view, I'm the worst salesman in the world. ;)
 
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Mr. gods gift to MR is forgetting that tires are also designed for specific road conditions as well. A michelin or hakkaplotta tire may be good for downtown since its almost always plowed and slippery as shit, but out around the 450 area, snow tires are much better at doing what they were designed for. I've found that General, especially the Altimax, are good for all over, as they are pretty much a 50/50 design of ice and snow, where as most of the conti or michelin line are designed for "high performance" driving. They will offer great traction for maybe 50% of their life, and the rest, well, is good to put up on Kijiji to sell to people that want to just put a brand name on their car and know nothing of how a tire works.

I hate to say it, but the Snowtrakker brand, although with a mediocre name for itself, works wonders even down near the end of the tire. Such a simple tread pattern, yet works great. Especially more for snow than anything else.
 
Realistically, if you drive accordingly, you can get by with a good set of all seasons.

40 years ago people used to get by with 6000lbs open diff RWD cars, and skinny all season tire with inner tubes and they managed.

But it's not 1969 anymore, our cars perform better and so do our tires.

As for what tires are good or not, it depends on what basis of comparison you've had. Some people rock cheap tires all the time and think others are stupid to pay for a set of proper tires, because they're never spent enough time behind the wheel of a car equipped with good tires through a various range of conditions. Nobody who has spent a winter driving a car with a set of studded Continental ice tires, or Nokian Hakka 5's, is going to be arguing that Wanli's are decent in the winter.

How do I define cheap? = an inexpensive tire that doesn't have any value. I have nothing against a product that has good value. The Goodyear Nordic aren't too bad, so are the General Altimax Artic, . Both tires are relatively inexpensive, perform well, last long, have a resale value, and offer a certain level of safety. The cheap chinese knock offs (triangle, sunny, wanli, etc), don't offer performance, longevity, or safety, resale value.

The only thing they offer is a low price. For me personally, a low sale price with no underlying value is worthless. But there's alot of people (it seems you're one of them), that associate a low price with value. That's fine and I respect that, but don't be bewildered if others think your Wanlis are garbage, and don't come trying to convince me that they're any good.

Also, running your winter tires in the summer is a fail.

my mom always has good winter tires on her car. right now she has some toyos. she drove my car last year and said my tires were much better than hers. and no, they aren't finished. and to be honest i don't buy something like tires intending to later sell them. theoretically a tire is a product that regardless how much i spend, i want to use till they're finished. i'm not going to spend $500 (as an example) and then a year later sell them at $300 and buy another $500 set. and to me low price doesn't always mean value. but if i can get one hell of a deal from a friend on some decent tires with tons a tread left when i'm basically running slicks in the middle of winter i'll do it. i also realize the tires are more or less worthless, and for what i paid it wasn't worth it for me to spend $600 on some summer tires when i can just run some winters.

but, since you seem very persistent that people shouldn't have bad tires, what tire do you recommend in 205/55/16? because chances are by the end of the week, if people on kijiji don't email me back or answer their phones i'll just wave the fuck it flag and go buy some Nordics
 
I'd rather have any good tire for winter, and by good I mean by the reviews I read.
If a brand new $500 set has better reviews than a $1300 set then I'll go for the $500 and vice versa.
 
I bought my S2k with triangles on it (brand new) holy shit they were awful. I put some Contipros on it which are just run of the mill all season tires that were like maybe 50% used I got free and they were 238947289374892374982374x better at everything than the almost new chinese shit.
 
With that being said for winter I've had x-ices on 2 cars are I find they're atrocious.
 
I've had shitty tires on my old car. It gives shitty results. Although, I know some people that will always aim for the cheapest ones and drive that all year long...
 
Finally I just picked up some Hankook w404 Winter Radials... hope they'll do me good! Decent tread left.
 
I dont know, Ill be on my second year with Sailun Ice Blazer (chinese tires) on my Focus and I got to say theyre just as good if not better than the Toyos, Continental and Snowtrakkers I previously had on my cars. Theyre the most quiet of them all and probably the best in snow and I have no relation whatsover with tire brands lol
 
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