Israel vs Hamas: Deadly Theater (Thread About the On Going WAR)

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t1#/video/bestoftv/2012/11/16/tsr-pkg-todd-gaza-ground-attack.cnn

Netanyahu, Obama discuss 'de-escalating' Gaza conflict



Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu called US President Barack Obama on Friday to discuss options for "de-escalating" the situation in Israel and Gaza, the White House said.

Obama "reiterated US support for Israel's right to defend itself, and expressed regret over the loss of Israeli and Palestinian civilian lives," according to a statement on the call.
Related:

Israel lobbies support for Gaza operations

"The prime minister expressed his deep appreciation to the president and the American people for the United States' investment in the Iron Dome rocket and mortar defense system, which has effectively defeated hundreds of incoming rockets from Gaza," the statement said.

Israel's right to self defense likewise was reaffirmed Friday by US State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland, who also called on countries with influence "to maximize the pressure we can bring to bear on Hamas to cease and desist," as the ongoing rocket fire "is not benefiting the cause of the Palestinian people and it’s certainly not benefiting the cause of regional stability."

Meanwhile, the IDF released statistics upon the conclusion of day three of Operation Pillar of Defense. According to the statement, the Israel Air Force hit 238 targets in the Gaza Strip on Friday. A total of 105 rockets struck Israel during the course of the day, the IDF said, while the Iron Dome missile defense system shot down an additional 99 rockets.

Earlier Friday evening Defense Minister Ehud Barak received Cabinet approval for the IDF's request to increase the maximum number of reservists it could enlist to 75,000 ahead of a possible Gaza ground operation.

Foreign Minister Avigdor Liberman, however, told Channel 10 that toppling Hamas is not on the agenda as a goal for Operation Pillar of Defense.

"We are definitely considering a ground operation, but toppling Hamas, I think that's something that the next government will have to decide," he said.

Liberman also told Channel 2 that the IDF will only stop its attacks against Hamas and other terrorist organizations in the Gaza Strip once Israel accomplishes its goals of stopping rocket fire and increasing deterrence.

Click for full JPost coverage

"Each time that Hamas fires [into Israel], there will be a harsher and harsher response," he added.

Debate over an incursion into Gaza comes after three days of constant rocket-fire from the Strip, which has reached as far as Tel Aviv and Jerusalem for the first time, and targeted Israeli strikes against terrorist leaders and weapons depots in Gaza.

On Friday morning, IDF Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Benny Gantz issued draft orders to 16,000 out the 30,000 reservists the cabinet approved Thursday. Most of the reservists called up thus far serve in the IDF's Engineering Corps.

The engineering corps would play a vital part in any ground operation into the Gaza Strip, enabling armored vehicles to move across the border into Gaza. The IDF operation to root out terror in the coastal territory has consisted of air raids on terror targets thus far.

IDF: Tonight will not be calm in Gaza

The IDF assassinated two Hamas members in Gaza on Friday evening.

The first, Muhammad Abu Jalal, was a Hamas company commander in central Gaza's El Muazi area, and the second, Khaled Shaeer, operated anti-tank missiles.

Earlier, the IDF sent text messages to 12,000 Gazan civilians, warning them to stay away from Hamas members.

The IDF warned that its activities would continue into the night on Friday, warning Hamas to take cover.

"Terrorists in Gaza should hide. Tonight won't be calm in Gaza," IDF spokesman Yoav Mordechai said. "We're hitting hundreds of rocket launchers in waves of air strikes, including right now."

The IDF also revealed on Friday that it had taken out Hamas's nascent drone program.

The military recently focused its intelligence efforts on a group of Hamas terrorists who were developing and producing drones designed to strike fortified targets in Israel.

The terrorists were under the instruction of Iranian technical instructors, and the 'production team' carried test flights in Gaza of the drones.

The IAF struck the test flight sites in recent attacks.

Jpost.com
 
sparcosoul said:
So sending rockets to kill civilians is justified? They aren't killing IDF soldiers they're killing kids and their parents.. So works both ways..

If u kill innocent civilians you are a terrorist.. No one talks about Russia expanding their borders killing Georgians and other Slavic nations.

The country you live in was taken from people, are those people throwing rockets at us and or rocks? No..

So what the bloody fuck are you talking about? The reason Israel expanded its borders in the first place is because upon its creation they were attacked by many countries at once, and won.. They weren't attacking anyone at first, the first attack on Israel was by Arabs, so the fuck with this pointless arguing, Palestinians are clearly wrong.

You know why?

Because Palestine does not have a country end of the line..

Where was the diplomacy of Arabs when they got bum rushed ? Was there any chance given to Israel? No it was just war, tu recoltes ce que tu semes..
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This is exact. Both Arab war were lost. However, the existence of Israel has been jeopardized not by the Arabs but by internal strife and the NeoCon Agenda. Netanyahu is more of plight to David's people than Nasrallah.
 
Israel ultimate plan is Iran and this may be the first actions into this plan. Remove Hamas, go into crippled Syria and then gun straight for Iran???
 
allroad said:
Israel ultimate plan is Iran and this may be the first actions into this plan. Remove Hamas, go into crippled Syria and then gun straight for Iran???
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They are after that Biblical time. Greater Israhell. They will fail miserably.
 
I said most and i was wrong, there were 2 large articles from infowars that were conspiracy, not news. I am as much of a jew as kossak is a christian.

And your right, ive been less than neutral in this thread. I have more Palestinian and Israeli contacts and friends inside Israel right now than everyone in this thread combined. In Sderot, ber sheva tel aviv etc.. many soldiers as well.

When i see articles from infowars and RT i cant help but laugh. We both know how bias RT is, especially when taking the side of fellow election rigging, murderous government bodies. Anyways, im cluttering your thread, i wont respond to the idiots like AJ4J and the guy above anymore. My bad.
 
od_man99 said:
I find you stunningly quick to point out how any opinion that differs from yours is a conspiracy. You, as a jew, have a dog in the fight. In fact, you moron, most of the articles I post is from Jpost.com.

You've managed to fuck my thread, if that was your objective, than thanks. Now point out to me, what specifically, you deem to be a conspiracy? The pictures of injured Palestinians/Israelis? Is it a conspiracy that Hamas is launching rockets? Is it a conspiracy that Israel is pounding Gaza? Is it a conspiracy that Qatar/Saudi fund Hamas, the Sunna militant group?
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I have to admit it to you, but I see you as somewhat mysterious. After reading your posts, I just can't seem to understand on what position you stand or what exactly you are trying to say. Correct me if i'm wrong, but I think you seem to contradict yourself most of the time. Let me be honest here, I understand what you are trying to express but I genuinely feel as sometimes people don't take you so seriously as members on this forum recognize you as a person who posts many conspiracy theory articles that have no credible evidence as well as articles from RT. When I read an article from RT about the Israel-Palestine conflict, I feel as if i'm reading an article from a Hamas leader. It is just so so biased and tends to hide the whole picture that I think members of this forum lose respect for you when you post these types of absurd articles.
 
Over 12,000 rockets fired into Israel from Gaza within the last 12 years. 1000 rockets fired ONLY in 2012. And yet Israel is the evil aggressor as they exactly pinpointed and killed a top hamas leader and then finally waking the fuck up and starting to fire back. But wait, before firing back they have the decency to warn Palestinians in the area that the situation will escalate and that they should seek shelter. I guess Hamas does that too no? Odman, you always mention western powers funding Israel and the Saudi's. Why don't you mention Iran or Syria funding Hamas with millions of dollars of weapons rather than helping them build schools, infrastructures, education, jobs? Answer me please.
 
We Are ComplicitObama's Kill List Policy Compels US Support for Israeli Attacks on Gaza

The US was once part of the international consensus against extra-judicial assassinations. Now it is a leader in that tactic.

By Glenn Greenwald

November 15, 2012 "The Guardian" -- Israel's escalating air attacks on Gaza follow the depressingly familiar pattern that shapes this conflict. Overwhelming Israeli force slaughters innocent Palestinians, including children, which is preceded (and followed) by far more limited rocket attacks into Israel which kill a much smaller number, rocket attacks which are triggered by various forms of Israeli provocations -- all of which, most crucially, takes place in the context of Israel's 45-year-old brutal occupation of the Palestinians (and, despite a "withdrawal" of troops, that includes Gaza, over which Israel continues to exercise extensive dominion). The debates over these episodes then follow an equally familiar pattern, strictly adhering to a decades-old script that, by design at this point, goes nowhere.​
Meanwhile, most US media outlets are petrified of straying too far from pro-Israel orthodoxies. Time's Middle East correspondent Rania Abouzeid noted this morning on Twitter the typical template: "Just read report in major US paper about Gaza/Israel that put Israeli dead in 1st sentence. Palestinian in 6th paragraph." Or just consider the BBC's headline. Worse, this morning's New York Times editorial self-consciously drapes itself with pro-Israel caveats and completely ignores the extensive civilian deaths in Gaza before identifying this as one of the only flaws it could find with the lethal Israeli assault: "The action also threatens to divert attention from what Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has repeatedly described as Israel's biggest security threat: Iran's nuclear program."​
In what I know will be a fruitless attempt to avoid having this discussion subsumed by that tired script: I will recommend several outstanding, truly must-read pieces written by others over the last 24 hours in lieu of my own reciting of the various arguments. Begin with this article by Yousef Munayyer in the Daily Beast setting the crucial context for the rocket attacks from Gaza; then read this Daily Beast news-breaking account from Gershon Baskin, who details how the provocations from the Israelis were geared toward disrupting an imminent peace deal with Hamas ("The assassination of Jaabari was a pre-emptive strike against the possibility of a long term ceasefire"); also vital is this time-line of events leading up to the rocket attacks from Gaza, with ample documentation from Ali Abunimah; and finally, there is this very succinct but poignant summary of what Israel has done over the last three weeks.​
I want to focus on the US response to all of this. US policy always lies at the heart of these episodes, because Israeli aggression is possible only due to the unstinting financial, military and diplomatic support of the US. Needless to say, the Obama administration wasted no time expressing its "full-throttled support" for the Israeli attacks. And one can't help but notice the timing of this attack: launched just days after Obama's re-election victory, demanding an answer to the question of whether Obama was told in advance of these attacks and gave his approval.​
Ultimately, though, Obama had no choice but to support these attacks, which were designed, in part, to extra-judicially assassinate Hamas military leader Ahmed al-Jabari as he was driving in his car (the IDF then proudly posted the video of its hit on YouTube). How could Obama possibly have done anything else?​
Extra-judicial assassination - accompanied by the wanton killing of whatever civilians happen to be near the target, often including children - is a staple of the Obama presidency. That lawless tactic is one of the US president's favorite instruments for projecting force and killing whomever he decides should have their lives ended: all in total secrecy and with no due process or oversight. There is now a virtually complete convergence between US and Israeli aggression, making US criticism of Israel impossible not only for all the usual domestic political reasons, but also out of pure self-interest: for Obama to condemn Israel's rouge behavior would be to condemn himself.​
It is vital to recognize that this is a new development. The position of the US government on extra-judicial assassinations long had been consistent with the consensus view of the international community: that it is a savage and lawless weapon to be condemned regardless of claims that it is directed at "terrorists". From a 15 February 2001 Guardian article by Brian Whitaker on the targeted killing by Israel of one of Yasser Arafat's bodyguards [emphasis added]:​

"International opprobrium was directed at Israel yesterday for its state-approved assassinations of suspected terrorists - a practice widely regarded as illegal.​
"A Foreign Office spokesman said the British government was shocked by what it described as the 'murder' of one of Yasser Arafat's bodyguards by Israeli forces on Tuesday and of nine Israeli soldiers by a Palestinian yesterday. . . .​
"Britain has also backed one of the strongest statements yet from the European Union. In a declaration issued by current president Sweden, the EU said it 'deplores the practice of so-called 'eliminations' or extra-judicial killings of Palestinians carried out by Israeli security forces'.​
"The EU, which is Israel's biggest trading partner, reiterated 'its strongly held opinion that Israel's policy in this regard is unacceptable and contrary to the rule of law'.​
"It continued: 'The European Union urges Israel to cease this practice and thus respect international law.'​
"The United States, while also condemning Palestinian violence, made clear its disapproval of the assassinations.​
"State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said: 'The use of Israeli helicopter gunships, Palestinian attacks against settlements and motorists, the use of mortars by Palestinians and the targeted killings by the Israeli Defence Force ... are producing a new cycle of action or reaction which can become impossible to control.'​
"Mr Boucher added that the new Secretary of State, Colin Powell, who is due to visit the Middle East next week, had spoken several times "about the need to avoid these kind of actions".​
That US condemnation of Israel's targeted killing came, by the way, from the George W. Bush administration. A month later, after another Israeli attack, Associated Press reported: "Secretary of State Colin Powell registered his opposition to 'a policy of targeted killings' in a 15-minute telephone conversation with Yasser Arafat, State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said" (illustrating the blatant fiction that Democrats are more peaceful than Republicans, then-Senator Joe Biden, in 2001, eventually attacked Bush officials for condemning Israeli assassinations).​
Former UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan has repeatedly said that "extrajudicial killings are violations of international law." EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana has said: "The European Union has consistently condemned extrajudicial killings. Israel has a right to protect its citizens from terrorist attacks, but actions of this type are not only unlawful, they are not conducive to lowering tension." Former UK Foreign Secretary Jack Straw has similarly pointed out: "the British government has made it repeatedly clear that so-called 'target assassinations' of this kind are unlawful, unjustified and counter-productive."​
Thus, to condemn Israeli aggression here, President Obama would need do no more than simply affirm universally recognized precepts of international law, ones that the US government has long claimed to support (even as it often violated them). That, however, is no longer possible for Obama - at least not without triggering a global laughing fit. As the Council on Foreign Relations documented in April of this year:​
"The United States adopted targeted killing as an essential tactic to pursue those responsible for the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001. The Pentagon and the Central Intelligence Agency have employed the controversial practice with more frequency in recent years, both as part of combat operations in Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as in counterterrorism efforts in Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia. Since assuming office in 2009, Barack Obama's administration has escalated targeted killings, primarily through an increase in unmanned drone strikes on al-Qaida and Taliban leadership, but also through an expansion of U.S. Special Operations kill/capture missions. . . .​
"Despite the opposition, most experts expect the United States to expand targeted killings in the coming years as military technology improves and the public appetite for large-scale, conventional armed intervention erodes. . . .​
"The Bush and Obama administrations have sought to justify targeted killings under both domestic and international law."​
In essence, what we find, yet again, is that the governments of the United States and Israel arrogate unto themselves the right to execute anyone they want, anywhere in the world, without any limitations, regardless of how many innocent civilians they kill in the process. "Rogue nation" is a term that is often casually tossed around in the discourse of foreign relations. Here, it is quite appropriate, and - when it comes to extra-judicial assassinations - clearly applies to the two countries who apply the term most frequently to others.​
Obama - the killer of Anwar al-Awlaki, Awlaki's 16-year-old American son Abdulrahman, and countless other innocent men, women, teenagers and children - could not possibly condemn Israeli actions in Gaza without indicting himself. Extra-judicial assassinations, once roundly condemned by US officials, are now a symbol of the Obama presidency, as the US and Israel converge more than ever before: if not in interests, than certainly in tactics.​
Glenn Greenwald is a columnist on civil liberties and US national security issues for the Guardian. A former constitutional lawyer, he was until 2012 a contributing writer at Salon. He is the author of How Would a Patriot Act? (May 2006), a critique of the Bush administration's use of executive power; A Tragic Legacy (June, 2007), which examines the Bush legacy; and With Liberty and Justice For Some: How the Law Is Used to Destroy Equality and Protect the Powerfull​
© 2012 Guardian News and Media Limited.​
 
It's unfair to the Palestinians to says that they are targeting Israeli civilians. Their missiles have NO aiming capacity...
 
Update

Some rockets that hit Israeli villages appear to have launched from the sinai in Egypt, as the egyptians struggle to control terrorist groups on their side of the border.

IDF checking if rockets that hit Eshkol area fired from Sinai


Rockets that exploded in Negev region may have been launched from Egyptian side of border; Sinai-based terror group Mujahideen Shura Council says five rockets that 'hit targets'
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The IDF is looking into the possibility that rockets which exploded in the Eshkol Regional Council Friday evening were fired from Egypt's Sinai Peninsula, army official said.


If the suspicions prove true, the attack would mark the second time in two days that rockets were fired toward Israel from Sinai. On Wednesday, shortly before the IDF killed Hamas military chief Ahmed Jabari in Gaza and launched Operation Pillar of Defense, four rockets exploded in an Israeli community located near the Egyptian border. Israel suspects that they were fired from Sinai. There were no reports of injury or damage in the attack. The Color Red siren, which alerts residents of incoming projectiles, was not sounded.
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Egyptian newspaper Al-Shorouk reported Friday that the Mujahideen Shura Council (MSC) in the Environs of Jerusalem, an al Qaeda-linked group in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula, claimed responsibility for the launching of five rockets. These were apparently the rockets that were fired at Israel on Wednesday.




The report said the rockets were launched from the northern part of Sinai, adding that a video clip shows that the rockets were fired from 107-millimeter rocket launchers, similar to the ones being used by Palestinian terror groups in Gaza. Al-Shorouk further reported that the rockets "hit their targets."




The past three years have seen a number of rocket attacks emanating from Sinai, but most of those attacks have targeted Eilat, Israel's southernmost city. The Sinai Peninsula has become a hotbed of terror activity and lawlessness since the ouster of Egypt's former president Hosni Mubarak. Terror groups in the region have carried out several attacks against Israeli targets.



In August 2011 eight Israelis were killed in a terror attack on Route 12 leading to Eilat, and in August of this year terrorists in Sinai murdered 15 Egyptian policemen and broke through Israel's border fence with a stolen armored carrier
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http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4306939,00.html



Security Chief of Egypt's Northern Sinai Fired (a few days prior)

Egypt's interior minister has fired the security chief of Northern Sinai governorate after suspected Islamic militants killed three policemen in the regional capital on Saturday.

The Interior Ministry said Sunday that Gen. Ahmed Bakr was relieved of his post and replaced by Gen. Sameeh Beshendi.

In the Saturday attack in El-Arish, gunmen opened fire at a police car and fled after they raised a black Islamic battle flag and shouted "God is great."

Dozens of policemen went on strike Sunday, blocking the city's main roads as the defense and interior ministers arrived and demanding a stronger military campaign against the militants.

Egyptian security forces have come under attack numerous times by militants who have exploited a security void in the desert peninsula that borders the Gaza Strip and Israel.
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http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/suspected-jihadis-kill-police-egypts-sinai-17633055
 
Ronin said:
It's unfair to the Palestinians to says that they are targeting Israeli civilians. Their missiles have NO aiming capacity...
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than why they shoot them if they are so useless?


because
palestinians like any muslim HATE JEW to Death.

kill civilien is ok For them if they are Jews.

at young age they get brainwash to hate Jews.

they think they are the banned people of god.

since the beginning of isreal The muslim said It will be a river of blood if any jew stay in this land.

anyways

peace is impossible between jew and muslim.
and muslim and Christian.
and Muslim and Hindu.
 
ever since the war on terrorism in 2001 it seems that there is less willingfullness to stop the stupid stuff the jews are doing in gaza..
i think the stuf has lasted long enough and that the un should take over, end of story, the ppl in palestine regardless of their crazy beliefs arent gonna calm down for a while so something else and new should be tried
 
Jacques79 said:
Out of curiosity, where are you from?
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I'm not jewish or israeli if that's what you're really asking.
I just read a lot about that area and talked to people on both sides of the fence and I think that Israel is right in this whole mess that's been going on down there for far too long.
 
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Deysh said:
Over 12,000 rockets fired into Israel from Gaza within the last 12 years. 1000 rockets fired ONLY in 2012. And yet Israel is the evil aggressor as they exactly pinpointed and killed a top hamas leader and then finally waking the fuck up and starting to fire back. But wait, before firing back they have the decency to warn Palestinians in the area that the situation will escalate and that they should seek shelter. I guess Hamas does that too no? Odman, you always mention western powers funding Israel and the Saudi's. Why don't you mention Iran or Syria funding Hamas with millions of dollars of weapons rather than helping them build schools, infrastructures, education, jobs? Answer me please.
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thats a good question , i'll answer it for you . if iranian funding or syrian etc had enough inpact on the actual outcome it would be mentioned . israel gets funded and stomps what they want when they want , hamas gets funded , drops rockets and not much changes . if hamas got funded and itactually helped their cause attein their goals im sure it would be mentioned .

to me od man seems to just be putting info out , it dont matter where he stands or if its a conspiricy thoery , get the info out and have people decide what they beleive .

@bertro , what are you ?
 
public-threat said:
ever since the war on terrorism in 2001 it seems that there is less willingfullness to stop the stupid stuff the jews are doing in gaza..
i think the stuf has lasted long enough and that the un should take over, end of story, the ppl in palestine regardless of their crazy beliefs arent gonna calm down for a while so something else and new should be tried
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A third party taking over to solve this problem would be nice in theory, but, the UN cant run a lemonade stand without thousands of people dying..
 
skylox said:
thats a good question , i'll answer it for you . if iranian funding or syrian etc had enough inpact on the actual outcome it would be mentioned . israel gets funded and stomps what they want when they want , hamas gets funded , drops rockets and not much changes . if hamas got funded and itactually helped their cause attein their goals im sure it would be mentioned .

to me od man seems to just be putting info out , it dont matter where he stands or if its a conspiricy thoery , get the info out and have people decide what they beleive .

@bertro , what are you ?
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I dont think Hamas will ever get anywhere, most palestinians hate them, their political rivals that they havent killed pursue peaceful means, while they are violent to stay in power. Hamas needs to step down. They publicly stated many times that any peace deal between abbass and Israel, will make Abbass an enemy to Islam. They dont want peace, they want the jews dead and Israel destroyed.

At this point, regardless of disputed history of Israel, it is there to stay. Most of the population was born there at this point. What they need is for Netenyahu to step down and let someone more open minded to a realistic peace process lead the government. But that is a useless step unless Hamas steps down as well, they are fundamentally opposed to peace, and the well being of Palestinians.
 
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