Event Coverage: Toyota 86 TRD Griffon Concept Sheds 500 Pounds

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2NDGENTEG

Legacy Member
86-trd-griffon-concept.jpg


Ahead of its debut, Toyota bragged that its new GT 86 TRD Griffon concept was faster around the Tskuba circuit than a Ferrari 458. Revealed today at the Tokyo Auto Salon, even more surprising is the fact that it does so without any added power.

Exactly how the engineers at Toyota Racing Development achieved such a feat is hidden under a body that looks deceptively stock.

SEE ALSO: 2013 Tokyo Auto Salon Coverage

Along with a completely reworked suspension system the GT 86 receives a long list of light weight components. In fact, the front bumper, doors, roof, rear bumper and hood are all made of carbon fiber. The front fenders are also made of the light weight carbon weave, and measure wider than stock. Further shedding pounds, the windows save the windshield have been replaced with polycarbonate.

In total, the Griffon Concept sheds 500 lbs compared to the stock GT 86 (already an incredibly light car), to tip the scales at just 2,280 lbs.
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See more photos of the Toyota 86 TRD Griffon Concept at AutoGuide.com
 
m_falafel said:
What is their obsession with not adding any power?!
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By adding power, you decrease fuel economy and you're only faster in the straights.

By reducing weight, fuel economy is (ROUGHLY) the same, but you're faster in the straights, in braking AND cornering. Car is more responsive, etc...



In racing, most engineers would rather reduce the weight than increase power. I read an example in RaceCar engineering a few years ago, say for a 3 sec. reduction in lap time at Spa Francorchamps:

It was determined that a 10% improvment in top speed would be needed, on a typical GT car (1250kg) you'd need a 33% power increase, but you'd need way more fuel, stop more often, over use the brakes, etc.

However if you took 100kg out of the car you'd get the same result, with (ROUGHLY) the same fuel economy.

Light cars are the way to go ;)
 
yeah just go lighter.. i decided to go turbo because i dont want to sacrifice cutting shit out, but thats just me...
 
Since 99.9% of the fr-s buyers WON'T bring it to the track, why the fuck can't they make a more powerful one. I understand how good it might be around a fucking track but daily driving that car must be fucking boring.

Offer a 2.0T with 280+ hp and I might consider it lol
 
mtougas said:
Since 99.9% of the fr-s buyers WON'T bring it to the track, why the fuck can't they make a more powerful one. I understand how good it might be around a fucking track but daily driving that car must be fucking boring.

Offer a 2.0T with 280+ hp and I might consider it lol
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C'est clair que tu n'en conduis pas une justement pour penser que cette voiture est "boring" seulement parce qu'elle ne possède pas 500hp.....et je ne dis pas ça parce que j'en possède une, loin de là, je répète seulement ce que plusieurs en pensent, que c'est une voiture qui a été créée pour le plaisir de conduire.....va lire les reviews de Jeremy Clarkson.....ça en dit long. Si un homme comme lui, qui a conduit des centaines, milliers, de voitures différentes trouve dans la FR-S le PUR plaisir de conduire comme il n'en avait jamais vu depuis des années...je me demande sérieusement pourquoi des Monsieurs Madames tout le monde qui n,en possèdent pas et/ou ne l'ont jamais essayé la considère "boring" :dunno:
 
parce qu'il la conduie sur la track...
Son opinion c'est son opinion.
Le fait que tu adores cette voiture c'est assez clair, tu le dis dans tous les posts que tu fais et c'est bin correct.
Mais, peu importe, ca a pas de torque et c'est pas ce que je recherche. Voilà pourquoi je dis que j'aimerais qu'il y ait une version plus masculine de l'auto (lol).
Je suis certain qu'au niveau de l'agilité, le freinage en sortie ça doit être bien le fun, ça a pas besoin de puissance pour ça, mais downshifter pour avoir une accélération "correcte", je trouvais ça le fun à 17 ans, mais c'est pu le cas aujourd'hui.

Remarque que je fais juste donner mon opinion et que t'as pas besoin d'essayer de convaincre tout le monde que le fr-s est une bonne voiture. Si toi tu trouves ton compte là-dedans tant mieux, moi j'aimerais mieux 280 hp :)

Edit : Quoté Clarkson c'est n'importe quoi honnetement, il donne un show et n'aime pas les Porsche lol...
 
mtougas said:
Since 99.9% of the fr-s buyers WON'T bring it to the track, why the fuck can't they make a more powerful one. I understand how good it might be around a fucking track but daily driving that car must be fucking boring.

Offer a 2.0T with 280+ hp and I might consider it lol
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If you aren't going to the track there's no point in having more power. I see your point. But the reduced weight still makes spirited driving better. Weight wont increase top speed, power yes. You're probably not going to be able to do many - if any - top speed runs. Wouldn't you rather accelerate quicker?
 
HeadBanger said:
If you aren't going to the track there's no point in having more power. I see your point. But the reduced weight still makes spirited driving better. Weight wont increase top speed, power yes. You're probably not going to be able to do many - if any - top speed runs. Wouldn't you rather accelerate quicker?
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Well I know what you mean, and kinda agree, but I really wonder how much of a difference a 500 pounds diet does in term of acceleration (compared to a normal fr-s).

Stock :
200hp | 3 682 lb | 0.054 hp/lb
That TRD edition:
200hp | 3 182 lb | 0.063 hp/lb
My wish :
280 hp | 3 682 lb | 0.076 hp/lb

Guess a stock one with 280hp would still accelerate faster, mainly considering it would have a much higher/flatter torque curve being a 2.0T

But hey, that's just my opinion!
 
mtougas said:
Well I know what you mean, and kinda agree, but I really wonder how much of a difference a 500 pounds diet does in term of acceleration (compared to a normal fr-s).

Stock :
200hp | 3 682 lb | 0.054 hp/lb
That TRD edition:
200hp | 3 182 lb | 0.063 hp/lb
My wish :
280 hp | 3 682 lb | 0.076 hp/lb

Guess a stock one with 280hp would still accelerate faster, mainly considering it would have a much higher/flatter torque curve being a 2.0T

But hey, that's just my opinion!
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The simple fact that you are quoting GVWR instead of curb weights says a lot about your automotive knowledge.
 
I get the whole weight savings equate to better overall power, but in real life conditions; merging / passing, stop and go and general accelerations, adding power makes more sense than weight reductions, unless you can't afford gasoline...

Weight reduction also comes at a greater price in many aspects than when adding power, you lose comfort (stripped interiors lol), sound deadening etc.

So in most situations, adding power to attain a certain power / weight ratio is easier, better, probably cheaper, and without as many sacrifices as reducing weight.


I'd still like to see that Toyota whoop a 458's butt though!!!!!
 
In real life for fun on the roads/light tracking you'd do a combo of the two. There's a fair amount of lightening you can do without making your car unpleasant.

@mtougas you're missing the point. At 280 a frs may straight faster but would do everything else worse than that griffon one. Also if you like the car so damn much then man up and go mod one to your 280hp. If not then go pick up a wrx like everyone else. I don't get what the issue is with you and this car.
 
VroomX2 said:
In real life for fun on the roads/light tracking you'd do a combo of the two. There's a fair amount of lightening you can do without making your car unpleasant.

@mtougas you're missing the point. At 280 a frs may straight faster but would do everything else worse than that griffon one. Also if you like the car so damn much then man up and go mod one to your 280hp. If not then go pick up a wrx like everyone else. I don't get what the issue is with you and this car.
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calm down, I don't like the fr-s. It's not what I'm looking for. I posted my opinion in this thread as what I would like to see in a fr-s concept/special edition. And you are right that this griffon one would destroy a 280 hp fr-s on the track, but I don't care about track times.
 
mtougas said:
calm down, I don't like the fr-s. It's not what I'm looking for. I posted my opinion in this thread as what I would like to see in a fr-s concept/special edition. And you are right that this griffon one would destroy a 280 hp fr-s on the track, but I don't care about track times.
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So you'd like a 280 hp frs... for there to be a 280 hp frs.

Would you like a fwd porsche while you're at it?
 
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