turbos...

Since lot's of people are thinking of turboing their car i think this thread is of great value , it helped me understand alot more those ingenious devices.
Let's keep it posted with some valuable info
Here are links to compressors and turbines maps :
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/turbotech.html#garrett
http://www.stealth316.com/2-3s-compflowmaps.htm#fm
http://not2fast.wryday.com/turbo/maps/

I don't know how to use turbine maps (looking toward to it)
But i will explain how to use compressor maps to calculate if a turbo would "fit" an engine in a later post *tu*
 
OK

Je c que j'ai deja poser plein de questions la dessus

Je c que j'ai fait chier bien du monde avec mes questions...

Mais j'en est d'autre :laugh:

Je prévoie p-e et surement mais on verra mettre un turbo sur mon ecotec

Je me suis faite conseiller un gt 28...

Je mis connais pas trop en turbo, mais sa va venir... Je vais surement macheter le livre Maximum boost...

Bon... Le prob c que je vais devoir faire mon kit custom...

Qu'est-ce que j'ai besoin??

exhaust manifold
intake manifold ???
turbo
intercooler
boost controler...
??

Ok, ya des choses que je vais faire faire parce que je m'y connais pas asser... Mais on ma conseiller de m'arranger avec le piping pour sauver de l'argent...

tk

J'ai besoin d'aide...

Merci bcp bcp bcp

Mathieu

edit : veuillez prendre en compte que l'interne sera pas stock... la tete non plus...
 
mathieums said:
OK

Je c que j'ai deja poser plein de questions la dessus

Je c que j'ai fait chier bien du monde avec mes questions...

Mais j'en est d'autre :laugh:

Je prévoie p-e et surement mais on verra mettre un turbo sur mon ecotec

Je me suis faite conseiller un gt 28...

Je mis connais pas trop en turbo, mais sa va venir... Je vais surement macheter le livre Maximum boost...

Bon... Le prob c que je vais devoir faire mon kit custom...

Qu'est-ce que j'ai besoin??

exhaust manifold
intake manifold ???
turbo
intercooler
boost controler...
??

Ok, ya des choses que je vais faire faire parce que je m'y connais pas asser... Mais on ma conseiller de m'arranger avec le piping pour sauver de l'argent...

tk

J'ai besoin d'aide...

Merci bcp bcp bcp

Mathieu

edit : veuillez prendre en compte que l'interne sera pas stock... la tete non plus...
Personne???? :( :cry: :tear: :balling:
 
soccer_man37 said:
damn ont dirais un cours de science physique ste tread la :)
:laugh:

Un moteur c pas "magique"...

Sa utilise les lois de la physique...

Et de la chimie aussi... mais tk

Plusieurs sujet en science sont relier a l'automobile... mais entk :)
 
i think someone should explain the relationship between air velocity and CFM
would help us learn how to modify mid-range or top-end power
 
I know that PSI is the US system calculation use to determine turbo boost and BAR is the metric one's

1 Bar = 14 Psi
2 Bar = 28 Psi

Most of the Boost gauge aftermaket and stock too use the Metric Bar system !
 
Bolt on turbo kit sucks, exept edelbrock one's...

From my part, I prefer buil up a custom turbo setup to get the best setup parts on the market.

When you go with bolt on turbo kit, ex. GReddy turbo kit, You will get A very small intercooler, a little basic trim turbo, a non-cfm calculated manifold, an internal wastegate, a cheat and low effeciency blow-off valve, no electronic... etc..

By going on Custom turbo setup, you could go with Garett GT35 ball bearing 4 inch inlet big turbo, good for up to 500 hp, custom or race turbo manifold, Turbosmart, Blitz, Apexi external Wastegate and Blow-Off valve, 2.5 3.0 inch tubing system, a custom 3 inch downpipe and exhaust system, a Uge Large monster, front mount intercooler etc....

This is the basic turbo setup parts in different brand normall include in a Bolt-on GReddy kit, exept in GReddy kit, everything is cheat...

Most people think they buy the kit, install it and became turbo...
It doesn't work like that

You will need Larger injector or extra fuel injector with piggy-back fuel management system, modified ecu, boost controller, manual or electronic, some gauge, oil pressure, air/fuel, boost, Strong clutch system, force induction fuel pump, Lsd Diff, A large radiator...

Oups, we forget the engine build up for up to 12 PSI

JE low compression piston, JE molly rings, H Beam Eagle rods, ported head, dual valve spring with titanium retainer

That become to be a real turbo setup

I spend about 15 000 $ on my turbo setup since 3 years... I'm addict...

So when I heard about some guys who want to get turbo setup and pay 2000-3000$, they are beside the track, And these guys think they will be fast on the track....
If think they doesn't know what the hell they are going to have....

LS/VTEC TURBO 19 PSI by ADVANCE EFI
 
200sxBoY said:
i think someone should explain the relationship between air velocity and CFM
would help us learn how to modify mid-range or top-end power

On pourrait dire c comme le s*xe soit tu prime la quantité ou la qualité
:confused: :balling:*banghead*
:p relationship :p :p top-end power :p
 
ACURAT-4 said:
Bolt on turbo kit sucks, exept edelbrock one's...

From my part, I prefer buil up a custom turbo setup to get the best setup parts on the market.

When you go with bolt on turbo kit, ex. GReddy turbo kit, You will get A very small intercooler, a little basic trim turbo, a non-cfm calculated manifold, an internal wastegate, a cheat and low effeciency blow-off valve, no electronic... etc..

By going on Custom turbo setup, you could go with Garett GT35 ball bearing 4 inch inlet big turbo, good for up to 500 hp, custom or race turbo manifold, Turbosmart, Blitz, Apexi external Wastegate and Blow-Off valve, 2.5 3.0 inch tubing system, a custom 3 inch downpipe and exhaust system, a Uge Large monster, front mount intercooler etc....

This is the basic turbo setup parts in different brand normall include in a Bolt-on GReddy kit, exept in GReddy kit, everything is cheat...

Most people think they buy the kit, install it and became turbo...
It doesn't work like that

You will need Larger injector or extra fuel injector with piggy-back fuel management system, modified ecu, boost controller, manual or electronic, some gauge, oil pressure, air/fuel, boost, Strong clutch system, force induction fuel pump, Lsd Diff, A large radiator...

Oups, we forget the engine build up for up to 12 PSI

JE low compression piston, JE molly rings, H Beam Eagle rods, ported head, dual valve spring with titanium retainer

That become to be a real turbo setup

I spend about 15 000 $ on my turbo setup since 3 years... I'm addict...

So when I heard about some guys who want to get turbo setup and pay 2000-3000$, they are beside the track, And these guys think they will be fast on the track....
If think they doesn't know what the hell they are going to have....

LS/VTEC TURBO 19 PSI by ADVANCE EFI


i don't agree totaly with you ... you can build a solid setup for 5000-6000$ if you know how to shop , and have something REALLY reliable (if you do it yourself)
 
Cé sur que si c'était à refaire, j'acheterais pas mal tout sur ebay et summit!
Et avec les connaissances que j'ai maintenant en matiere de turbo setup, oui, je prendrais mon temps, a la shop a mon vieux et je batirais mon setup de A à Y, je laisserais le Z a Steve de chez ADVANCE EFI pour ce qui est du piggyback !!!

Mais je regrette pas du tout de l'avaoir fait faire, j'ai des pots autour de moi qui tente depuis 3-4 ans de se monté un setup fort ( Car n'importe qui peut foutre un turbo su son char, roulé 4-6 PSI) mais j'en ai pas vu 1 a date, qui s'est bati kek-chose de très puissant et à la fois fiable...

1 de mes pot taponne depuis 1 an et demi su son setup ( moteur de talon TSI dans Colt 94), y'a au dessus de 8000$ d'investi pi ca marche toujours pas!!


J'ai été chanceux, j'ai eu une sacré de bonne récolte pi c'est chez Advance Efi que j'ai blanchi cette argent la!!! ah ah

et pour ta question NOSH, mon setup développe entre 325 Whp at 15 PSI avec du 94 octane et quelque bouteille d'octane booster!!

J'ai pas encore roulé sur le dynojet avec du VP Fuel a 21 PSI, mais ca doit petté le 400WHP ou très très près !!!

Mais en t k, sur la route, 325 WHP dans une Teg, ca se déplace rienqu'en masse, ca monte a 265 km/h ( sur l'Apexi et non au compteur) en pas trop long merci!!!

Frank
 
AIR AND HEADS (AIRHEADS)
The difference between CFM and PSI is simply that CFM is a measurement of how much in volume of air is travelling through. PSI is a measurment of the compression of that air. Take for example a tank of compressed air (or Nitrous if you will) The volume of the bottle always stays the same (ALWAYS) lets say is a 10L or whatever. (They are actually usually measured in lbs but whatever were talking about displacement not weight) But the amount of air inside the tank can change. There is obviously a lot more air in a bottle holding 2500 PSI than the same bottle holding 10 PSI, yes? Exactly a lot more air in the same amount of space that is compression. And then abviously you have to consider air tempature, colder air has a higher density, which means the same volume of air at a higher density at the same boost will provide more air. All of this ties into why heads are so important on a motor. Because heads are the traveling routes of air to the motor. A lot of stuff overlooked in heads is because a good head can maximise the volume of air entering without losing velocity. If your engine is demanding a higher volume of air into the engine, the velocity of the air through the heads must be sufficient to constantly keep that amount of air going in. The larger your ports the slower the air speed, thats why a properly tuned head finds a median between air velocity and CFM (volume). And atmospherical PSI does not truly apply to controlled environments such as an engine.


NITROUS
When setting up a turbo on your car...actually sorry. Whenever modifying your car to produce more power, there is everything to take into consideration. Nitrous comes in three ways dry, wet and direct port (but you already knew that and your wondering where I am going with this, right?) dry is a lower amount of boost, this is because it is relying on merely on the nitrous itself. Just so we completly understand nitrous is not a super-explosive gas, it is a compressed and controlled way of entering air into your cylinders. Nitrous in itself is useless and is expelled out your exhaust. By weight air is 23% oxygen and Nitrous is 36% oxygen. Nitrous is merely pumpin more air into your engine. Its like a "turbo in a bottle". So now that that is clear, we'll move on. Nitrous also comes in wet shot, this is a solenoid of Nitrous and Gas being pumped into your air intake (this setup is used for both dry and wet shots). Dry shots could be good to 50-75 HP (maybe), wet shot is probably good from 75-115HP (all this depends on engine and setup) The problem with wet and dry shot is that entering your manifold it is not properly shot over all 4/6/8/10/12 cylinders and usually ends up being burnt mostly in the first two. The reason that a wet shot must be mixed with gas is because since you are putting more nitrous (oxygen) you need more gas in your engine, and its rather easy to run a stand alone system than try and design a way to make your injectors spit out more fuel. Remember fuel and air must be properly mixed in order to completely burn otherwise you get rich or lean fuel, and possible problems like detenation. Then comes in direct port for higher power and better application in all areas. This is where the Nitous and Fuel solenoids are placed in each pipe entering your cylinders on your manifold. There is a nitrous and fuel solenois for each cylinder in your car and this means that lots of nitrous can be pumped and it will be pumped evenly over ALL the cylinders...this means your piston heads wont wear out unevenly or be making more power than others (or at least too much). Direct port is good for a WHOLE LOT OF POWER. Its pretty much up to how strong your motor is to decide how much you can pump it up. Lets get to that.

FORCED INDUCTION
When installing turbos or superchargers on your car there are soo many factors to look at. Its not soo much strapping a fan on your engine and watching your bitching ass civic smoke some 'tangs. Besides all the programming and tuning that goes into turbos (because installation is not very complicated once understood and practiced, the computer part of it is where its gets complicated). But when turning up high boost its gonna cost you more than the kit. Depending on the power output you almost certainly have to change your injectors, fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, fuel lines, pistons, connecting rods, ECU, valves, valve springs,piggyback system to control it, or completely swapping your ECU, gauges (oil, EGT, boost presure etc), larger radiator or intercooler (unless the kit came with an intercooler). Just for starters (I am missing soo many things), all the exhaust system will have to be changed.All this stuff SHOULD be upgraded. So lets say someone does this and is running a tight setup, now its getting it to the ground.

TRANSMISSION AND TRACTION OPTIONS

Your car is pumpin out mad horsepower you feel like Vin Deisel from FAF, just ready to smoke the guy in the Firefly next to you...your powerplant is gonna have to make sure to have a ****ing strong transmission, new clutch, new flywheel, New tires, hopefully new axles (because stock cars arent usually made for 6000 rpm launches with 500HP+ cars (assuming your running that). All this work on your engine is useless is you burn out for the first 10 seconds of the race, or if your transmission falls into the street. This is actually a topic I would not want to get into...its long and youve probably heard it all before. But its all just to point out that modifying your car, especially when we are talkling about turbos involves upgrading your cars in more way than you thought.

It should also be added that Nitrous being cooled or heated changes its pressure rating.

Terra Flata
 
Interesting stuff, terraflata!
I've got a pretty stupid but useful question...
What do A/R and Trim mean exactly? What do they measure?
And also, how do the companies determine the name of their turbos? Like a GT28RS... does it have a meaning? Is it like SR20de... sr=family, 20=engine displacement, etc?

Thanks!
 
^ tres instructif ce petit link la! Seule affaire que j'ai encore peine a comprendre c'est le Compressor map
 
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