Rear disc swap worth it?

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Gregster

Gregster

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I am really thinking about doing a rear disk swap on my car. I have pretty much all the parts except for the calipers.

My car is about 80% front 20% rear balence.

Is it worth it to swap? considering I have a set of performance shoes on the rear?
 
I know that on civics it makes a hell of a difference, probably would on a neon too. Go for it.
 
I would say it is pointless right now. It will not add much at all and you need experience to appreciate it. A front wheel drive car barely uses the rear brakes. The Honda Michelin challenge guys run with rear drums for example.

Lots of guys think that they need to do all these upgrades when they are still beginners. Many of the go fast parts require a driver who can take advantage of them. Same with any activity. Tools that are very good are hard to use. Look at tennis. The rackets that pros use are impossible to use well by a beginner. Skiing is the same.

So my advice is to relax. Go purchase GT4 and Driving Force Pro steering wheel and get all golds in the license tests. Go karting. Do not go on the upgrade treadmill just yet.
 
care to explain then why you bought a 5K brake upgrade? :p

Imho, If you are sure 100% you will upgrade anyway in the future, and find a good deal. letting it pass is silly. It's true there is no hurry, but with good canadian dollar, and a good deal.. this is not completely a bad time to consider doing some upgrades.
 
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Tex said:
care to explain then why you bought a 5K brake upgrade? :p

Imho, If you are sure 100% you will upgrade anyway in the future, and find a good deal. letting it pass is silly. It's true there is no hurry, but with good canadian dollar, and a good deal.. this is not completely a bad time to consider doing some upgrades.
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I did drive the stock brakes on the track. For 1 event. Of course, I didn't really need the full monty 4 wheel kit. Fronts only would have been fine. The reason for 4 wheel kit was bling.

If the question was about upgrading the front brakes then I would have been more supportive. The rears don't do much and I seriously doubt a difference would be felt. I would first put steel lines all around for better brake feel. This everyone can feel, even on the street.

The first few track events are spent mostly getting the hang of the line, watching one's mirrors, and trying to be on time to the classroom and track sessions.

There is certainly no harm in improving the rear brakes. But it is not a must have.
 
That actually makes me feel somewhat less of an idiot, lol. As I just got a huge brake upgrade and have yet to lap.

I agree on the SS lines. (from what I hear)
 
NeonGreg said:
I am really thinking about doing a rear disk swap on my car. I have pretty much all the parts except for the calipers.

My car is about 80% front 20% rear balence.

Is it worth it to swap? considering I have a set of performance shoes on the rear?
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It can't get worse! If it's only calipers that's missing go for it, shouldn't be very expensive. :bigup:
I did it on my Protege(+ bigger front discs :D ) and it's worth it. My front pads last much longer. That solved my busted front calipers problem.
 
NeonGreg said:
Is it worth it to swap? considering I have a set of performance shoes on the rear?
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I Basically agree with what MstrBlstr is saying about not really "needing" to upgrade the brakes. However, if you already have all the parts except for the calipers, then why not?

Rear drums lock up too easily, especially when you get them hot. Also, if you have ABS on your car, then rear drums will degrade your stopping power even more. I never understood the logic of sticking ABS on a car with rear drums and front discs. I wouldn't do it if it costs a lot...but since you already have all the parts just go for it.

Emre
 
Tex said:
That actually makes me feel somewhat less of an idiot, lol. As I just got a huge brake upgrade and have yet to lap.
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How do you like the kit? Any trouble installing it?

Emre
 
Jme suis equiper de brake a disc de Si arriere sur mon civic...lapper un an....

Ensuite j'ai upgrader mes disc avant et j'ai lapper un an avec...

Mon verdict est que j'aurais du upgrader le devant avant le derriere puisque la puissance de freinage n'est pas vraiment augmenter ainsi que la resistance des brakes avant(qui font 80% et + de la job de freinage).....Si les upgrades avant son facile sur ta voiture(peu couteux) va s'y pour le devant en premier sinon upgrade le derriere pis met toi 4 bon brembo *tu*
 
brake ratio is usually 70/30 or around this , but what lanevo says on drum locking easely is quite true *tu*
if you got the parts do it , youl get a slight difference , but i consider this mod the same as removing power sterring on drag car that rolls on steert , for hardcore racer's only ...
 
200sxBoY said:
brake ratio is usually 70/30 or around this , but what lanevo says on drum locking easely is quite true *tu*
if you got the parts do it , youl get a slight difference , but i consider this mod the same as removing power sterring on drag car that rolls on steert , for hardcore racer's only ...
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Actually, brake bias ratio on most cars is not linear. It is more rear-biased during initial MC travel and progressively becomes more front biased to account for weight transfer towards the front. Obviously, front-heavy FFW cars need more front bias. A 911 would need helluva lot less. However, OEM systems are calibrated with stock tires and suspension in mind. Add stickier tires and/or stiffer suspension and the rate at which the rear tires unload will change, requiring an adjustment in the bias ratio rate, either through adj. prop valves, different f/r pad compounds, or even MC size. Assuming properly adjusted and maintained systems, a drum setup should not/will not be be more prone to lock-up than a disc setup. If a tire locks up, it has run out of traction period, and it does not matter whether it's a disc or drum.

However, if there's one thing rear discs have over drums, it's ease of maintenace. Drums are a royal PITA to work on and maintain.
 
Savais-tu que dans la serie Mopar Neon, au US et maintenent au Mexique, il retirait les disc arriere sur les ACR pour sauver du poids. Drum = bcp leger que disque+Calliper+plaquette. Et pour les Neon ca fait aucune difference. Investie dans tes freins avant. Brembo disc + Hawk HP plus + ligne de freins en SS...apres on verra

Conseil!!! :bigup:

Appelle Carl chez Trac il est habituer de trouver des pieces pour mon Neon
 
Sparky said:
Savais-tu que dans la serie Mopar Neon, au US et maintenent au Mexique, il retirait les disc arriere sur les ACR pour sauver du poids. Drum = bcp leger que disque+Calliper+plaquette. Et pour les Neon ca fait aucune difference. Investie dans tes freins avant. Brembo disc + Hawk HP plus + ligne de freins en SS...apres on verra

Conseil!!! :bigup:

Appelle Carl chez Trac il est habituer de trouver des pieces pour mon Neon
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heheh jai deja les brembos HP+ pis les lignes SS. Tres bon setup :bigup:

aussi jai des konis jaune :bigup:
 
I would have expected guys with track experience to know more about proper brake upgrades...

Most street car, FWD even more so, have a LOT of front bias. Manufacturer make sure that if you lock some wheels (less likelly with ABS being standard now), it will be the front wheel that locks. It's easier to manage the understeering from front wheel lock than the oversteer front rear wheel lock...

If you really have 80/20, then please, upgrade the rear brakes ASAP !!! Your braking distance will be reduced because you will use more of the availlable rear grip before front wheel lock up.

Be aware that you will then have way more brake oversteer. Drive accordingly...

Tex, what upgrade have you done? My Track should be here near the end of next week ;)
 
Kolia said:
I would have expected guys with track experience to know more about proper brake upgrades...

Most street car, FWD even more so, have a LOT of front bias. Manufacturer make sure that if you lock some wheels (less likelly with ABS being standard now), it will be the front wheel that locks. It's easier to manage the understeering from front wheel lock than the oversteer front rear wheel lock...

If you really have 80/20, then please, upgrade the rear brakes ASAP !!! Your braking distance will be reduced because you will use more of the availlable rear grip before front wheel lock up.

Be aware that you will then have way more brake oversteer. Drive accordingly...

Tex, what upgrade have you done? My Track should be here near the end of next week ;)
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this seems to be more logik then every other statement in this thread *tu*
 
Kolia said:
Most street car, FWD even more so, have a LOT of front bias. Manufacturer make sure that if you lock some wheels (less likelly with ABS being standard now), it will be the front wheel that locks. It's easier to manage the understeering from front wheel lock than the oversteer front rear wheel lock...
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True, but manufacturers also adjust it with greasy street tires in mind. Add sticky tires and you increase the amount of R->F weight transfer and the bias may not be so conservative anymore. You may even end up with too much rear bias. Lower the CG, add stiffer springs, better shocks etc, and this changes things some more.

The whole point of course, is dont automatically upgrade your rear brakes (or front for that matter) unless you need to. And the need will depend on a lot of factors, including driving style.

Also, for those that havent read it yet, this is a must read on the subject:

http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/brakebiasandperformance.htm

There are also a lot of other interesting articles, including a couple by late Carrol Smith, if you have a few hours to waste one day...

http://www.stoptech.com/technical/
 
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