RussianM3_dude
Legacy Member
I comepletely agree. However if the new Benz automatic is not TOO annoying, I might give it a try. Manual transmission is fun, but 400+tq is also.
Pics and a review of my RS4.
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I comepletely agree. However if the new Benz automatic is not TOO annoying, I might give it a try. Manual transmission is fun, but 400+tq is also.
Tex
Legacy Member
I'm rarely aware of me operating the gearbox when I drive. The times I am aware of it, is when I'm pissed slipping the clutch in traffic (too often), or when the road is open and nice and I'm driving fast (too rare)... but then I can just flick it in manual mode and the shifting becomes as enjoyable as any good manual. Only on a very few good cars pushed hard on the track would I miss a manual gearbox.
In manual mode, it's not that different, instead of moving the lever left up right down, you just move it up and down... and you don't have to use the clutch. I don't really miss a clutch pedal, maybe my left leg is not getting the exercise, but never found it really entertaining daily driving wise.
FAST_AUDI
New member
Well... yes and no. DSG is pretty fun and fast shifting if you ask me. Ya ya its an dual clutch mechanism and not a real auto but I am starting to like the practicality. As you probably know, the 997 turbo tiptronic is 0.3 s faster 0-60 than the manual gearbox and at high speeds and on race tracks it takes your worries away from mishifts so you can concentrate on the road course itself. Not bad at all.
BurnsWRC
Well-known member
Very nice review Russian,
I agree with you although i have never had the chance to drive one. I must say as far as audi goes they are very boring to me. Like FAST_AUDI mentioned, they are a love or hate affaire, but for 100k u better REALLY love the car.
My initial thoughts were that it looked very nice...aggressive, but the price tag is rediculous.
One car i would highly recommend u take a look at if ure looking at the c63 (gorgeous exhaust note btw) is the CLK63 Black Edition, uve probably seen it around the track at F1 races.
I agree with you although i have never had the chance to drive one. I must say as far as audi goes they are very boring to me. Like FAST_AUDI mentioned, they are a love or hate affaire, but for 100k u better REALLY love the car.
My initial thoughts were that it looked very nice...aggressive, but the price tag is rediculous.
One car i would highly recommend u take a look at if ure looking at the c63 (gorgeous exhaust note btw) is the CLK63 Black Edition, uve probably seen it around the track at F1 races.
MstrBlstr
New member
I know it has a faster 0-60 time. But the fun is in the process of driving and controlling the car and not in outright lap times. If you care about laptimes in a Porsche you buy a GT3 Cup race car. Any street legal Porsche will be slower.
BTW the Cup car has an H pattern shifter with a clutch.
Worrying about misshifts is part of the fun. If making a mistake makes you blow up your engine that makes it that much more satisfying when you don't make a mistake. Nobody watches a tight rope walker 1 m above ground. But if he is 20 m above ground then it's exciting.
And yes, I misshifted already. Didn't blow the engine but it wasn't pretty. I think the differential was never the same on that car anymore.
ziploc
Legacy Member
That's exacly it..
Notice also the 30 and 50 mark....just a reminder of speed limits
RussianM3_dude
Legacy Member
The problem with the CLK Black edition and with all the Black Editions in general is the absurd price tag. Ferrari money for what is basically an improved Benz. And after driving an F430 Spider today, let me tell you, they ain't close.
The black series is for somebody who already has a Ferrari but wants a hardcore daily car... with an automatic because he is always stuck in traffic. It's a GT3 for those that live in SoCal or Central London.
VWSpeed
New member
This is a good thread. For manufacturers, it is simpler to build luxo sedans/coupes with hi-tech gizmos, lots of power and all that weight. How many sedans are now available with over 500HP in the world!!! It's crazy!!! For manufacturers it's great, they make a shit load of money on these because people buy them.
The World is getting FAT, people are more FAT than ever, cars are heavier than ever, people are buying bigger homes for smaller families...FAT IS IN!!!
For the purist and drivers (especially the ones that live on twisty mountaing roads), we need lightweight cars with good power, RWD, 5-6 speed manual, powerful brakes, excellent turn in and traction...How many manufacturers build these type of cars, a handfull (Porsche, Ferrari, BMW CSL, and a couple more).
The World is getting FAT, people are more FAT than ever, cars are heavier than ever, people are buying bigger homes for smaller families...FAT IS IN!!!
For the purist and drivers (especially the ones that live on twisty mountaing roads), we need lightweight cars with good power, RWD, 5-6 speed manual, powerful brakes, excellent turn in and traction...How many manufacturers build these type of cars, a handfull (Porsche, Ferrari, BMW CSL, and a couple more).
En!vy
Legacy Member
I'm not sure I understand your tight rope walker analogy.
From what I understand you prefer a true manual gearbox because you find it more personally gratifying to drive... which makes loads of sense, but then its almost as if you take that sentiment one step further and basically stipulate that driving a clutch-less car fast takes less skill and know-how than driving a true manual slightly slower in comparison. Coming from someone like yourself who is immersed in the local track scene, I find that to be a very interesting statement.
The NSX was a purists car, some 3 years ahead of its time, that at the time offered up Ferrari performance for a fraction of the price.... and yet it never caught on. Unfortunately we live on a continent where brand representation trumps sensibility.
BurnsWRC
Well-known member
agreed. If you want a Ferrari, in my opinion no car comes close. Benz is, as u mention more of a daily driver and the price tag is absurd, i thought it was in RS4 territory. Still a killer looking car though, im sure it will be a rare sight as well.
MstrBlstr
New member
But the tight rope walking I meant that if there is no element of danger and skill required to deal with danger it's not as much fun. The trick is to find the right amount of danger so you don't kill yourself doing it but still enjoy it.
And of course, a car with a computer controlled clutch will take less skill to drive just as fast as a true manual. There is one less thing to think about. Same goes for cars with no ABS. It takes more skill to go the same speed.
Try doing the braking+downshift+trail braking from 240 km/h to 150 km/h with one and the other and tell me which one is more difficult to do.
RussianM3_dude
Legacy Member
Just reminded myself today why I dislike the sound of this car. Man is it a whiner!!!!! Sounds like somebody bolted a supercharger on, the whistling/whining sound above 5000rpm almost drowns out the engine. RS4 just sounds like a blender 90% of the time I drive it. Whining or whistling unless you are on 100% throttle AND under 5000rpm.
Anybody can tell me if that is normal for a V8?
Anybody can tell me if that is normal for a V8?
FAST_AUDI
New member
Not normal at all. Sounds like n pcv valve malfunction or intake leak.
Tex
Legacy Member
I was at calabogie a few weeks ago, and there was a joint BMW/Audi club HPDE. A few RS4s were running. They sounded very nice, real throaty V8 sound, loud gurgles on throttle release and a deep growl rising into a nice scream at high RPM. That they sounded like crap is the last thing I would have said.
Took a few pics. (I swear there was an RS4 somewhere)
One black one was crazy fast. Was the first time I saw one around a track, and I followed it closely (remembering Jeremy Clarkson's rave review of the RS4), and it was the one of the fastest, if not the fastest car around (except a few Z06 vettes).
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Tex
Legacy Member
Maybe the pictures are both S4s, I swear there was one black RS4. I don't think the blue one was a normal A4, normal A4 doesn't have the wider fenders, on that kind of grille, and that front bumper. [edit] you are right, looked at the hi-res version, and it says S-line... anyway, my poor observation and recognition skills weren't the issue, S4, RS4, the V8s sounded nice[/edit]
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RussianM3_dude
Legacy Member
I was at calabogie a few weeks ago, and there was a joint BMW/Audi club HPDE. A few RS4s were running. They sounded very nice, real throaty V8 sound, loud gurgles on throttle release and a deep growl rising into a nice scream at high RPM. That they sounded like crap is the last thing I would have said.
Took a few pics of them. (blue one may be an S4)
the black one was crazy fast. Was the first time I saw one around a track, and I followed it closely (remembering Jeremy Clarkson's rave review of the RS4), and it was the one of the fastest, if not the fastest car around.
It's easy t be fast when all you have to do is mash the gas and steer. Except you will have no tires left by the end of the day.
Tex
Legacy Member
calabogie is a bit more technical than an oval, requires skill no matter how you shift. Tires will last 10-15 track days HPDE, even on those cars, why would they last one day? In Anycase not much different than any other moderately heavy performance car on the track, the harder you play, the more you pay..
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RussianM3_dude
Legacy Member
AWD cars don't teach you anything about driving, except for an STI or an EVO.
MstrBlstr
New member
10-15 track days on street tires? Maybe when driving in the beginner group.
Give me a stock RS4 and I will kill the tire shoulders in 5 sessions.
BTW. Killing the tires on a Cayenne is not as easy. Somehow the suspension doesn't let the tire roll on the shoulder as much. It wears the whole thing evenly.
Coming down corner 3 at 150 km/h in Das Pepper is quite interesting.
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