Article: AMG or M and why

The M engines were built with a purpose, and it reflected in all of their engine designs. They were special, the throttle response was unmatched by anything outside of an exotic, super high end sports car. They revved to the moon, had the flatest torque band all the way to the redline, had unique sounds, ITBs (on a V10!) which were combined to incredible chassis, segment first transmissions (SMG & DCT) and were excessively reliable for what they were. The S65 and S85 won all the engine awards for years!

The 6.2 V8 was used throughout the AMG range and wasn't anything special (6.2 DOHC with 450hp?!) until they really pushed it to its limits in the SLS Black Series (6.2 620hp), it's always been paired with an albeit evolving yet still old school torque converter. For fuck's sake, you had an electronically limited version in the C class that wouldn't allow full throttle body opening and you could find the same engine in a goddamn Minivan R Class. Talk about engineering and specialness.

Where's the purpose? The M156 was the LS engine of Mercedes, they put that thing in everything. FYI until 2010 these engines were blowing up left and right due to faulty headbolt designs. They're great engines, greater than BMWs? Maybe in the current gen, it's a toss up and I'm disinterested in the question since the are turbo.

Again, AMG should be seen as the hot-rods of the German sports cars. They stick huge, powerful mills in their cars with handling clearly not on the top of their list, reminds you of Americans no? They reserve the full AMG experience for Black Series cars; widebody treatments, engines evolved to their pinnacle, and a focus on handling.

kahos said:
Are we taking a trip down memory lane?

What about these motors makes them "better" than the AMG V12s? The V8s?

The V10 is notorious for Vanos failures and has been out of production for 6 years. It loved to rev and it sounded sweet I'll give you that but so what?

Even the normally aspirated AMG V8s are more powerful and reliable so I don't see what's so special about it.

The M3's V8 has also gone the way of the dodo. Impressive design, trick individual throttle bodies and all. It's one of the best small displacement V8s out there. Truth is I don't care about displacement and still like the larger AMG V8 better.
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M because of manual gear box, and just overall engineering BMW is just out of this world. However there's no denying that beautiful AMG sound omg
 
M hands down. Handling, drive train, way it's designed etc is beast.
Want to get an e90m3 myself down the road!

Was never a fan of Benz/AMG.
 
Al3x_666 said:
C63 BS >>>> All BMW M3

SL65 BS >>>>> all the bmw together

S65 / S63 AMG VS ???? Sorry nothing
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hello :)

d4605896afb7c24f02edfa09f6708d4e.jpg
 
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En tk je dois avouer que depuis que j'ai vu le vidéo de Chris Harris sur la AMG GT-S et que j'ai réalisé que le char valait "juste" 160-180k avec le thread de jag vs mb (moi c'est le prix dans 3-4 ans qui m'intéresse), je suis bandé ben raide sur la GT-S lol

J'étais convaincu que c'était juste une autre Mercedes à 350k puisqu'elle partage presque tout de la SLS mais sans les défauts de le SLS mais non, elle a un prix "raisonnable" pour ce que tu as c'est fou, j'ai trop hâte de voir comment elle va déprécier.

Totally my style, fat ass, long nose, wiiiide wheel base, mium mium
 
///M used to be head and shoulders above AMG, no question. C55AMG was pathetic as was the rest of that range. Now however I feel AMG is ahead. The have more special engines and are simply more fun in day to day driving. MOst M engines today are just boosted regular lumps. Just look at the 1m or X5M
 
DivImport said:
The M engines were built with a purpose, and it reflected in all of their engine designs. They were special, the throttle response was unmatched by anything outside of an exotic, super high end sports car. They revved to the moon, had the flatest torque band all the way to the redline, had unique sounds, ITBs (on a V10!) which were combined to incredible chassis, segment first transmissions (SMG & DCT) and were excessively reliable for what they were. The S65 and S85 won all the engine awards for years!

The 6.2 V8 was used throughout the AMG range and wasn't anything special (6.2 DOHC with 450hp?!) until they really pushed it to its limits in the SLS Black Series (6.2 620hp), it's always been paired with an albeit evolving yet still old school torque converter. For fuck's sake, you had an electronically limited version in the C class that wouldn't allow full throttle body opening and you could find the same engine in a goddamn Minivan R Class. Talk about engineering and specialness.

Where's the purpose? The M156 was the LS engine of Mercedes, they put that thing in everything. FYI until 2010 these engines were blowing up left and right due to faulty headbolt designs. They're great engines, greater than BMWs? Maybe in the current gen, it's a toss up and I'm disinterested in the question since the are turbo.

Again, AMG should be seen as the hot-rods of the German sports cars. They stick huge, powerful mills in their cars with handling clearly not on the top of their list, reminds you of Americans no? They reserve the full AMG experience for Black Series cars; widebody treatments, engines evolved to their pinnacle, and a focus on handling.
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That 6.2 weighed less AFAIK than the 3.2I6 in the M3. It was very sophisticated and was tuned for tq and not high end power.
 
DivImport said:
The M engines were built with a purpose, and it reflected in all of their engine designs.
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So by opposition, the hand crafted AMG motors are somewhat lacking in purpose?

Just as there are different ways to skin a cat, there are different ways to make big power. Going down the displacement path vs high rev doesn't make any one of them less special to me. Both approaches have their Pros and Cons; I suppose it all boils down to personal preferences to a certain extent.

The early C63 were nerfed in the name of product separation because they were an "entry level" AMG offering at the time. Besides, at 450hp it already handily exceeded it's /M counterpart's power output (+50% peak torque at 450 vs 300) Sounds like mission accomplished to me.

If /M is all about purpose built motors then why is the M2 using a version of the layman's X4 N55 rather than the special sauce S55? /M Car with a run of the mill crossover powertrain. Doesn't sound all that special to me :run:
 
M.

Because real drivers know that sound doesn't beat times, and Mercedes does not include service plan which BMW does include.

Anybody looking for an M contact me :)
 
The M156 is lacking in purpose for the simple fact that it was developped for numerous chassis configurations;

C Class: sport sedan
E Class: saloon
S Class: limousine
SL Class: sporty luxury coupe
G Class: off road truck
ML Class: SUV
GL Class: Boatsize SUV
R Class: Minivan
SLS: Super Sports Car

This certainly speaks for the broad abilities of the M156 engine, but it certainly excludes it from being built with a unique purpose. M cars of the time were developped from head to toe to be special, the V10 development came straight from the BMW F1 team's experience, unless you've driven one you simply can't understand how special of a package the E60 M5 was and still is; you had a world class exotic, manic drivetrain wrapped in a executive saloon body.

You simply can't circumvae the argument by pretending hand building an engine is what makes it special; if anything it's a liability in this day and age.

It's pretty obvious you skipped my text and went straight to an answer; I'm pretty upfront that I'm disinterested in discussing current M engines, they have clearly lost the plot and AMG makes better performing and sounding engine in this era with an added specialness (sound!).


kahos said:
So by opposition, the hand crafted AMG motors are somewhat lacking in purpose?

Just as there are different ways to skin a cat, there are different ways to make big power. Going down the displacement path vs high rev doesn't make any one of them less special to me. Both approaches have their Pros and Cons; I suppose it all boils down to personal preferences to a certain extent.

The early C63 were nerfed in the name of product separation because they were an "entry level" AMG offering at the time. Besides, at 450hp it already handily exceeded it's /M counterpart's power output (+50% peak torque at 450 vs 300) Sounds like mission accomplished to me.

If /M is all about purpose built motors then why is the M2 using a version of the layman's X4 N55 rather than the special sauce S55? /M Car with a run of the mill crossover powertrain. Doesn't sound all that special to me :run:
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Alpina LOL

Roue que ca fait 20 ans qu on voit.. Look oldschool..

Vraiment pas de classe avec la S class AMG


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
 
Al3x_666 said:
Alpina LOL

Roue que ca fait 20 ans qu on voit.. Look oldschool..

Vraiment pas de classe avec la S class AMG
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Donc elle n'est pas dans tes gouts? ;)

Ce qui est parfaitement normal, parce que chacun a des gouts différents.

Moi cette B7 est vraiment dans mes goûts.

tous les gouts sont dans la nature!

Peace & love Alexio! ;)
 
DivImport:

I’ve read your post. I just decided not to quote in its entirety in order to save a bit of space.

I think you’re looking at this the wrong way around. The fact that Mercedes had lots of platform/applications that shared the ability to accept a longitudinal V8 has little to do with the engine per se.
It’s simply smart engineering on MB’s behalf.

That in itself is not compelling evidence that AMG had to compromise on much if anything as part of the M156’s design. They set out to build a powerful N/A V8 and they delivered on that promise.

It just so happened that Mercedes chose to make the most of it by offering it in as many products as it felt people would be willing to pay a premium for.
 
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