Donald John Trump is no longer president: what does it mean for you?

250Rocket said:
As others pointed out it's hard to compete with the likes of companies in China, where they install safety nets to prevent workers from committing suicide so tariffs are just a way to level the playing field and make sure the inflows more equally match the outflows. And even if it's 100% automated in the USA, what about the companies who manufacture and maintain those robots? If they're also American based and owned it becomes the real life version of my baker/farmer example where they will go spend into the economy and pump up the velocity of money.
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The key word in my argument which everyone seems that have ignored was additional job creation. If a company's sales increase because the chinese product becomes more expensive, the company will be able to increase production without having to hire a lot of new employees because most companies have unused production capacity.

So yes, the amount of money staying in the country for that product increases but you are forgetting that tariffs work both ways and China's tariffs have caused greater revenue losses for US farmers and manufacturers.

-So far, the US has paid $28 Billions in agricultural bailout to farmers hit by the trade war with China.
-40,000 beer industry workers have lost their jobs because of tariffs on aluminum.
-US auto makers are particularly vulnerable to cost increases from their suppliers and sales have already slowed down and they had to lay off thousand of employees.
-The US manufacturing sector is entering a recession.

Source for the $28B figure:
https://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-trump-tariff-bailout-20190524-story.html

The days of integrated local supply chains have been over for decades. Manufacturers source materials and components from all over the world because it's a lot cheaper than buying and manufacturing everything locally. Tariffs cause more job losses than they create. You end up with products that are a lot more expensive and a domestic market with decreasing purchasing power due to the net job losses.
 
NoTop5.0 said:
Lol. You know everything don't you. I see first hand the labor shortage that is causing the loss of productivity. I see a lot of machine operators do minimum 50 hour weeks, with Saturday optional, but strongly encouraged. I see employers going to phillipines to get workers, but Legaults plan put a kaibash on that. We sold a lot of automation equipment because the demand is high. Not because they don't want to hire humans, because they know they know they can't get any more operators. I do stupid hours because there is not enough of me to go around. We are.really pushing industry 4.0 to help deal with it. Get head out your ass.
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We're discussing general principles based on the last 40 years. The labor shortage is an anomaly compared to the majority of that period. In your particular case, using tariffs to supposedly create local jobs makes no sense if companies are already unable to find people.
 
The tariffs imposed was to supposedly balance the huge trade deficit with China. I mean huge. Trumpf wants China to buy from USA as much as USA buys from them. What you are expecting is ' tariffs are now in place ..let me see the new jobs now..
For example. Textile was thriving in Montreal before the last quota was lifted in 2005. By 2009, about 60000 jobs involving textiles indirectly and directly was gone. Yarn suppliers, dyers, machine parts,etc.... . The whole logistics disappear. Now somehow tariffs make the same textile garment the same price to produce here. You think they are going to start a whole industry, with the nagging thought trump might be gone by 2020?
For example

Edit: i didn't see the additional jobs comment
 
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Spaceman Spiff said:
We're discussing general principles based on the last 40 years. The labor shortage is an anomaly compared to the majority of that period. In your particular case, using tariffs to supposedly create local jobs makes no sense if companies are already unable to find people.
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Another thing, I have never seen a company expand in capacity, and not hire extra workers. EVEN with automation. Will see with 4.0 though
 
Spaceman Spiff said:
The US has been applying tariffs for the past 3 years?

If you actually read the thread (it looks like you haven't) you would have seen the article mentioning that the US manufacturing sector is entering a recession because of tariffs.
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See below as to why some of us tend not to read all the thread:

Spaceman Spiff said:
Stop being so childish.
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Spaceman Spiff said:
I'm sorry but your question was incredibly stupid. If you can rewrite it intelligently, i will gladly answer it.
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Too much garbage posts (like this one I'm writing right now - no arguments - just arguing.)

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l discussion est interessante sauf kan des ti comiques se mette a avoir leur hormones dans ltapis. on a tu le droit de pas etre au meme niveau??? on a tu le droit de pas savoir les meme choses??????? les tites crisette de "jai raison farme ta yeule" commence a faire chier. j,aime bin ca en aprendre sur economie international chu pas mal nul dans le sujet. si vs vouler vs bitcher faite le en prive. jdemande un nettoyage du thread par un modo.
 
donchevy said:
l discussion est interessante sauf kan des ti comiques se mette a avoir leur hormones dans ltapis. on a tu le droit de pas etre au meme niveau??? on a tu le droit de pas savoir les meme choses??????? les tites crisette de "jai raison farme ta yeule" commence a faire chier. j,aime bin ca en aprendre sur economie international chu pas mal nul dans le sujet. si vs vouler vs bitcher faite le en prive. jdemande un nettoyage du thread par un modo.
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Tu es le premier a tirer sur le messager quand tu ne saisis pas le message. Si tu n'es pas heureux, quitte.
 
donchevy said:
l discussion est interessante sauf kan des ti comiques se mette a avoir leur hormones dans ltapis. on a tu le droit de pas etre au meme niveau??? on a tu le droit de pas savoir les meme choses??????? les tites crisette de "jai raison farme ta yeule" commence a faire chier. j,aime bin ca en aprendre sur economie international chu pas mal nul dans le sujet. si vs vouler vs bitcher faite le en prive. jdemande un nettoyage du thread par un modo.
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Quoi? Y a un party dans le thread pis je suis même pas invité! lol
 
donchevy said:
l discussion est interessante sauf kan des ti comiques se mette a avoir leur hormones dans ltapis. on a tu le droit de pas etre au meme niveau??? on a tu le droit de pas savoir les meme choses??????? les tites crisette de "jai raison farme ta yeule" commence a faire chier. j,aime bin ca en aprendre sur economie international chu pas mal nul dans le sujet. si vs vouler vs bitcher faite le en prive. jdemande un nettoyage du thread par un modo.
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kan tu sé écrire kom un autiste s'a poud, t'é mieu de pô te mélééééeee de affoires d'autres.
 
@ladyboys kes t'en sait toi de la dislexie...jvais t'explique le probleme pis tu te feras une idee. Quand je pense a se ke je veux ecrire jessaie d'imaginer les lettres que ca prend une après l,autre ca commence a me meler et je perd l'idee que je veux ecrire. si je veux faire un texte de 5-6 phrase ca peut prendre 15-20 min juste a decortiquer dans ma tete. mon temps est precieux le votre ici donc priere d,avoir un peu d,indulgence. bonne journée


ps je t'ai pas traite de cave tu ferras pareil la prochaine fois
 
donchevy said:
@ladyboys kes t'en sait toi de la dislexie...jvais t'explique le probleme pis tu te feras une idee. Quand je pense a se ke je veux ecrire jessaie d'imaginer les lettres que ca prend une après l,autre ca commence a me meler et je perd l'idee que je veux ecrire. si je veux faire un texte de 5-6 phrase ca peut prendre 15-20 min juste a decortiquer dans ma tete. mon temps est precieux le votre ici donc priere d,avoir un peu d,indulgence. bonne journée


ps je t'ai pas traite de cave tu ferras pareil la prochaine fois
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Nop, aucune indulgence pour le monde qui écrivent "ke" à la place de "que" désolé meilleur chance la prochaine fois, arrête de faire passer ça sur le dos de la dyslexie pis télécharge antidote si tu sais pas écrire.

Les virgules à la place des apostrophes c'est surement la dyslexie ça aussi et non pas parce que tu fais juste aucun effort pour écrire le moindrement correctement.

Ma mère est dyslexique et elle écrit pas comme une attardée. Désolé du off topic je voulais pas être méchant j'ai aucune mauvaise intention.
 
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Grim said:
I don't know where to begin.

The real world that has been destroying Western economy for decades? Please tell me more. Your company has been importing products from China and exporting our economy, how admirable. No wonder China is becoming a superpower. It highjacked Western economy and used capitalism as a clever weapon against us. Yet, here you are banalizing this.

Unfortunately, Many (most) Western companies are directly encouraging child labor and/or human exploitation/death + destroying nature. The air pollution levels in China are getting near extreme. It will only get worse. You have no idea what you are talking about. China can't keep going on like that without killing their own population in the long run. You do know China is a communist country, right? They will tell you its like rainbows and unicorns over there and build huge ghost cities where nobody lives in because they cant afford it. Communism is left, Capitalism is right.

China recently stopped importing recycling and waste from the Western World because their soils (probably the air too) were becoming contaminated. The situation is probably way worse then what is being said by the Chinese government.

But its okay, you turn a blind eye to all this since you work for a company that destroys Western economy by sending money overseas to exploitative countries, just so they can cut manufacturing costs by 30%+. (whether its China or any other South-East Asian countries or third world country, its the same everything)
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Because western economies have never employed children or polluted nature directly as a result of industrial production? You know China is doing an enormous amount of work towards reducing the pollution from their coal-burning plants which is the primary source of air pollution?

In many measures, it's leading the world in renewable energy development:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/dominicdudley/2019/01/11/china-renewable-energy-superpower/
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2019/6/18/18681591/renewable-energy-china-solar-pv-jobs

It's also enacting measures to curb pollution created from it's own economic prosperity by distributing car plates through auction or lottery and it's not cheap:
https://www.economist.com/china/2018/04/19/why-a-licence-plate-costs-more-than-a-car-in-shanghai

To say communism is the left and capitalism is the right shows how simplistic your view and understanding of the world is. They shouldn't even be on the same spectrum.

Yes its time for a change. I know you're a big Walmart and Dollarama fan. Meanwhile, the USA is trillions in debts. Clearly, things need to drastically change because nothing is working even for a Capitalist country like America.

If you buy less volume at a time, shipping prices will go up because you will be placing additionnal orders per month since you can't risk buying too much product at a time in fear of being stuck with it. If shipping goes up you have to mark up the price. If the final sale price of Chinese products goes up, sales volume will further diminish which will lead to higher shipping prices since you are purchasing lower volume per order (and will need to place more orders). Rest assured, a Chinese company (out of desperation) will either reduce their price or reimburse some shipping fees in order for you to not have you raise the price to the consumer and lower the volume you purchase further if you've been doing business with them for 35 years. This has not happened yet because the West has been doing nothing about it for decades. China's economy is based on high volume production/manufacturing.They also build a huge volume of infrastructure and ghost cities to artificially inflate and boost their GDP, hence the Chinese Bubble.

As for storage, it is simple. To manufacture anything you need raw materials that you store. What happens when you dont sell at the same pace? You accumulate raw material that you need to store because for the last X years your supply and stock was growing at a set amount. Now if many Chinese manufacturing companies in the same sphere were to lower their raw material purchases from their (few) suppliers because they have an excess of them. What will slowly happen? These suppliers will either charge more per raw material or slowly run out of business. Now, what happens when raw material prices go up significantly if you buy less volume? Chinese manufacturing companies will not want to pay more per raw material at first in order not to affect their end pricing on manufactured products. They will buy raw material at the same rate as usual and will need to store more to maintain their end price on their manufactured product with hopes that the market will pick back up. What happens when the market does not pick back up? Chinese manufacturing companies will be stuck with a lot of raw material in stock. What happens to the suppliers of raw material when many Chinese manufacturing companies in the same sphere are stuck with a lot of raw material in stock? Big problems.
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LOL @ shipping will go up, placing orders every month because you can't risk buying too much? This isn't the fucking 80's man.
When it comes to finished products, companies and retailers enter into production contracts years/seasons in advance.
- I want X amount of product for Spring 2020 delivered to the port of LA.
- I want YZ products every month for the next year.

This isn't some auto parts store where you just call up Gilles from across town to deliver something to you.

Modalities are agreed to in advance, you do understand the basic concept of forecasting and price discrimination right? You know what companies do when they have too much product? They liquidate that shit, every store you go to and even online they liquidate products that aren't selling or are at the end of their product cycle and guess what? The companies planed for it, it's baked into their forecasting and margins.

You absolutely need to store materials in order to manufacture anything? Shit, better not tell Toyota I guess this whole in Just in Time manufacturing that everyone in the industry copied has been a hoax. The only people placing orders like that are people peddling stuff on Amazon or drop shippers and even then the latter just has their shit shipped directly from China to their end customer.

Honestly your entire understanding of how manufacturing and supply chains works is so poor I can't even argue against point since it's completely non-sensical and requires market participants that apparently have the intellect of children.


By reading your post, you must be hoping the same old way of doing things continue. This way the company that employs you can remain in business and import your products manufactured overseas into Canada.

The only reason your company is thriving is because of lawless disgusting exploitation of humans and nature. Why aren't your products/goods manufactured locally in Canada?

Thanks to your company for making Canadian economy 'stronger' by creating jobs overseas just so they can sell their products 30%+ cheaper.

Sending money overseas and drastically diminishing local money velocity will definitely make Canada 'thrive' in the long run.

Your opinion is that America should do nothing and let China and other exploitative countries get ahead. What are the other options besides tariffs? War?

According to you, the USA should keep electing whoever represents the establishment and blindly see where this leads. It's been working for 35 years for your company.

Your company and other Anti-Western corporations must lobby hard to make sure things never change.

I am a right wing capitalist, but this is where capitalism needs to be drastically regulated for the greater good of western societies: Manufacturing overseas should simply be illegal (or highly regulated/penalized) to some extent.

What is your next argument? The west is incapable of producing at the pace China is? Perhaps, the West could start 'mass importing' Chinese workers and provide them with adequate working conditions and pay? It seems they are just better at manufacturing stuff than us and that must be why your company uses them. Right? :D
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What about the jobs here that wouldn't exist if it weren't for overseas manufacturing? All the jobs at the Aldo/Dynamite/Reitmans/Arden head office that wouldn't exist because they can't manufacture their apparel at a low cost.

It's velocity of money not money velocity don't start throwing around terms you don't yet understand just because you saw it on the previous page.

It's totally in the self-interest of western societies to encourage segregation of global wealth, let's keep all the money in western developed nations and let the vast majority of the global population languish in poverty and starvation with no posibility of economic of development or advancement. Real smart plan.
 
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