Hi, I' m doing my shopping list to bring my car back to it's previous glory, always used as a Sunday drive / track day car. I am looking into suspension (now sit on a pss 10 absolute shit) I was wondering if solid mount for rear subframe would be a problem on the street... all new M car are solid mount...why not e46?
E46 m3 subframe solid mount
- Thread starter Rick 944
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Gtfour
New member
Define solid bushings please? Aluminum, delrin or poly?
I usually prefer something hard enough that won't flex too much but that can also absord a bit of the drivetrain vibration so the noise isn´t transfer directly to chassis.
I have AKG Motorsport 75D (red) engine mounts, tranny mounts, subframe bushings and diff bushings on my E46 M3 track car and it sounds like I have straight cut gearbox in the cabin. If you want to keep a bit of confort while driving on the street, maybe go with AKG 90A bushings (black) or poly. It will reduce movement like OEM rubber bushings and won't be as bad as solid bushings.
Make sure to change diff bushings while being there, the side bushing on the diff will most probably destroy. Same with engine mounts, the passanger side might be smaller by 1/2" due to headers heat.
What coilovers are you looking for if you don't like the PSS10? And what is the ratio of track VS street with your ride? There isn't a lot of true track coilovers on the market, most can't handle spring rate over 700.
I usually prefer something hard enough that won't flex too much but that can also absord a bit of the drivetrain vibration so the noise isn´t transfer directly to chassis.
I have AKG Motorsport 75D (red) engine mounts, tranny mounts, subframe bushings and diff bushings on my E46 M3 track car and it sounds like I have straight cut gearbox in the cabin. If you want to keep a bit of confort while driving on the street, maybe go with AKG 90A bushings (black) or poly. It will reduce movement like OEM rubber bushings and won't be as bad as solid bushings.
Make sure to change diff bushings while being there, the side bushing on the diff will most probably destroy. Same with engine mounts, the passanger side might be smaller by 1/2" due to headers heat.
What coilovers are you looking for if you don't like the PSS10? And what is the ratio of track VS street with your ride? There isn't a lot of true track coilovers on the market, most can't handle spring rate over 700.
Installations GTH
Shop Representative
It is all a trade off...
Even putting UUC red bushings on my tranny mounts I can feel a lot more vibration from the tranny, I like it but I have had other people comment that it feels like something is wrong...
I know on my boat running solid mounts put a ton of vibration you could feel, and the noise changes too so if it works for you great but the bushings are what make a BMW a BMW.
You would be amazed at what all new OEM bushings can do.
Even putting UUC red bushings on my tranny mounts I can feel a lot more vibration from the tranny, I like it but I have had other people comment that it feels like something is wrong...
I know on my boat running solid mounts put a ton of vibration you could feel, and the noise changes too so if it works for you great but the bushings are what make a BMW a BMW.
You would be amazed at what all new OEM bushings can do.
Gtfour
New member
You mean a money pit or talking about driving characteristics?
OEM bushings don't last, it's always been a problem with everything BMW made in rubber. FCAB melt on passanger side, RTAB have a questionnable design and people even put limiter plates to stop the play (which is a bad idea), ...
For a street car, replacing old bushings every 3 years with OEM is still way to go because it will keep the ride tight and comfortable. For track use, it's a no go.
If BMW ever makes condoms, I predict that Qc birth rate will go from 1.6 to 10!
I have another car and bike for track, there is a limited number of wknd...so maybe like 4 track days with the M3, for time with no trailer, no extra wheels. I'm trying to setup a reliable car that can be drive on the road but will maybe 1.55 at LCMT... I know i'm chasing an unicorn....
Was looking at JRZ, rate like 600/500... what are my other options?
Why AkG vs all others out there?
Gtfour
New member
1:55 at LCMT isn't too hard to do with a car with some bolt-ons. No need for extreme modifications. All you need is larger wheels, sticky tires, race brake pads, good coilovers and spring rate.
JRZ 2-way non remote are the best you can go with (or similar Motion MCS 2-way non remote). That's what I have on my E46 M3 ZCP (JRZ RS2) with 700 front / 800 rear spring rate and also have 800/900 setup as a backup. I had Moton Clubsport and Moton Motorsport in the past but honestly no need for external reservoir for lapping or even amateur racing. You don't want to have to bother with Nitrogen pressure at a Lapping day or having a leaky quick connect on reservoir sucks.
Don't waste your time with Bilstein, GC, TcKline, KW, AST, all other brands if you want something decent for track because they are design for street confort first and can't handle spring rate higher than 700. And even higher than 600, you will have next to no range on the damper adjustment.
For a car that is still streetable, I would recommend 600/700 spring rate at least. The difference between 500/600 and 600/700 isn't that bad for street, I was daily driving my first E46 M3 10 years ago on TcKline DA 600/700 and it wasn't bad at all. It will make a good difference for track vs 500/600. With 600/700, you will be able to put sticky tires or even slicks like Hoosier R6/R7 without too much body roll.
I tried a lot of aftermarket parts over the years and AKG Motorsport offerS track oriented parts at a really decent price. They are easy to deal with and quality of their product won't disapoint. I had Turner, Rogue, Bimmerworld parts in the past and they are not as easy to order via their website and the first 2 sells parts more for street oriented cars. Bimmerworld doesn't seems to make anything in-house, only selling parts with their branding made by someone else.
If you need springs or race pads, let me know. I have a brand new set of PF11 front pads for oem calipers and 2.25''/700/6'' long Hyperco springs but those would sit better in front due to 6'' length, a bit too long for rear. 5'' are better for rear.
JRZ 2-way non remote are the best you can go with (or similar Motion MCS 2-way non remote). That's what I have on my E46 M3 ZCP (JRZ RS2) with 700 front / 800 rear spring rate and also have 800/900 setup as a backup. I had Moton Clubsport and Moton Motorsport in the past but honestly no need for external reservoir for lapping or even amateur racing. You don't want to have to bother with Nitrogen pressure at a Lapping day or having a leaky quick connect on reservoir sucks.
Don't waste your time with Bilstein, GC, TcKline, KW, AST, all other brands if you want something decent for track because they are design for street confort first and can't handle spring rate higher than 700. And even higher than 600, you will have next to no range on the damper adjustment.
For a car that is still streetable, I would recommend 600/700 spring rate at least. The difference between 500/600 and 600/700 isn't that bad for street, I was daily driving my first E46 M3 10 years ago on TcKline DA 600/700 and it wasn't bad at all. It will make a good difference for track vs 500/600. With 600/700, you will be able to put sticky tires or even slicks like Hoosier R6/R7 without too much body roll.
I tried a lot of aftermarket parts over the years and AKG Motorsport offerS track oriented parts at a really decent price. They are easy to deal with and quality of their product won't disapoint. I had Turner, Rogue, Bimmerworld parts in the past and they are not as easy to order via their website and the first 2 sells parts more for street oriented cars. Bimmerworld doesn't seems to make anything in-house, only selling parts with their branding made by someone else.
If you need springs or race pads, let me know. I have a brand new set of PF11 front pads for oem calipers and 2.25''/700/6'' long Hyperco springs but those would sit better in front due to 6'' length, a bit too long for rear. 5'' are better for rear.
I'm confused because VAC propose the opposite in spring rate i.e. Front is heavier, might be a mistake of me. So confirm will go for JRZ and AKG black for bushing. I am going for an 996 caliper upgrade so I have to use competition package front rotors.
Now that is my next question, i need to remove 5.5 milimiters off the calipers (front) where do I go?
P.s. I bought a kirk roll ball from you in the past. I beleive you are the m3 best guy in MTL thanks for responding.
Now that is my next question, i need to remove 5.5 milimiters off the calipers (front) where do I go?
P.s. I bought a kirk roll ball from you in the past. I beleive you are the m3 best guy in MTL thanks for responding.
Gtfour
New member
Spring rate are always higher in the back by 100-150 increment if you use OEM rear springs location on the upper control arms. If you have a true coilover rear with springs on the shock directly, than motion ratio isn't the same and and rule of thumb is to divide by 2 front spring rate. So for exemple, 600/700 on OEM rear spring location become 600/350 with true coilover rear.
You can buy JRZ as a true coilover rear with rear clevis mounts but rear shock tower must be reinforced to accept the extra load.
If you haven't bought the rotors yet, get the ECS Tuning 2-pieces ZCP size rotors vs OEM. They are the same price appx but it will cost less while replacing in the future. Thanks me later! They are also 1 lbs lighter per rotors. Unsprung weight!
I will send you contact info by private message for a machine shop, shop owner also track/race an E46 M3!
If you ever want to replace that Kirk bolt-in roll bar with a weld in roll bar that also address the rear subframe cracks issues on top section, I make a roll bar kit with subframe tie ins.
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=563036
BTW you still have that Estoril blue M3 I guess. Last time we chat, you had transmission or clutch related problems, is that fix? What was the problem finally?
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But is the car feel stiffer?
I'm worried about AKG definition...I'm thinking red for subframe and black for the rest of bushing...the new M4 is solid mount, where are they getting the noise reduction?
Edit: is the noise coming from subframe? If it's fixed I don't understand why it would make noises
I'm worried about AKG definition...I'm thinking red for subframe and black for the rest of bushing...the new M4 is solid mount, where are they getting the noise reduction?
Edit: is the noise coming from subframe? If it's fixed I don't understand why it would make noises
MattRC51
New member
You mean a money pit or talking about driving characteristics?
OEM bushings don't last, it's always been a problem with everything BMW made in rubber. FCAB melt on passanger side, RTAB have a questionnable design and people even put limiter plates to stop the play (which is a bad idea), ...
For a street car, replacing old bushings every 3 years with OEM is still way to go because it will keep the ride tight and comfortable. For track use, it's a no go.
If BMW ever makes condoms, I predict that Qc birth rate will go from 1.6 to 10!
Why is that? I just ordered Meyle HD bushings and was contemplating the idea of getting the limiters...
WEBBY
New member
Yes the car is stiffer from the rear. As for the noise, the OEM bushing being in rubber, absorbe the whining sound and vibration of the diff and drive train. Even if they are solid and harder the black one absorbe well the sound and the vibration, not as good as OEM but nothing to complain about .