Merc were willing to supply Macca but not Red Bull

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http://kwese.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/21889975/toto-wolff-mercedes-wanted-supply-engines-mclaren

Wolff: Mercedes wanted to supply engines to McLaren

"...Red Bull has often pointed to the power deficit between its Renault engines and the class-leading Mercedes power units as the reason for its struggles since 2014, but Wolff says it is that kind of attitude that puts Mercedes off supplying the team from Milton Keynes.

and Newey replies on Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1:

"...No doubt there is an element of truth in this but I still think that Red
Bull were authors of their own misfortune. The old adage, “be nice to
people on your way up because you may meet them again on your way down”
comes to mind.."

I'm sure F1 fans can understand this better.
 
It's crazy to me that there are so few engine suppliers. I understand the cost of developing a motor is up there, but the exposure and technology advancement potential must be worth it...

Red Bull should build their own motors.
 
if you can recycle the heat from the turbos (if I got this right), you're probably already vacationing on Mars and enjoying the warmer than here temps., i.e. Aston-Martin is negotiating a "simpler" engine design for 2021.

It's crazy to me that there are so few engine suppliers. I understand the cost of developing a motor is up there, but the exposure and technology advancement potential must be worth it...

Red Bull should build their own motors.
 
It's crazy to me that there are so few engine suppliers. I understand the cost of developing a motor is up there, but the exposure and technology advancement potential must be worth it....

Really?
la course c'est un money pit pour pas mal tout le monde.

l'Exposure est bonne..mais faut la bonne cible

Les cout du R&D d'un moteur de F1 est juste hallucinant...pas pour rien que c'Est pas tout le monde qui le fait..et quand ils le font: ils le font pas pendant des décennie non plus.
ET la F1 n'est qu'une catégorie parmis tant d'autre.
 
Merc and McLaren had a bad relationship in the final years. Ron Dennis and team wanted a small engine package which Merc was unwilling to deliver .. honda said "oh yea we can so do that and will be exclusive to you and give you 100 million per year" the rest was history

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Really?
la course c'est un money pit pour pas mal tout le monde.

l'Exposure est bonne..mais faut la bonne cible

Les cout du R&D d'un moteur de F1 est juste hallucinant...pas pour rien que c'Est pas tout le monde qui le fait..et quand ils le font: ils le font pas pendant des décennie non plus.
ET la F1 n'est qu'une catégorie parmis tant d'autre.
It's worked out really good for Mercedes marketing and getting away from the "oldman" imagine

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It's worked out really good for Mercedes marketing and getting away from the "oldman" imagine

Really? For me, it’s was the AMG’s that did that. Seeings Merc’s shredding tires while going sideways did more then their F1 racing ever did.
 
Really? For me, it’s was the AMG’s that did that. Seeings Merc’s shredding tires while going sideways did more then their F1 racing ever did.

i feel the same way. offering cars that appeal to younger buyers gets away with the oldman image better.

but it's always good to know that your enthusiast brand of choice is also implicated in motorsports. it's like it makes you think that what they learn on the track probably trickles down into your road car. i doubt that's the case nowadays though; everything is purpose-built and engineered to the atom for the task that needs to be done.
 
i feel the same way. offering cars that appeal to younger buyers gets away with the oldman image better.

but it's always good to know that your enthusiast brand of choice is also implicated in motorsports. it's like it makes you think that what they learn on the track probably trickles down into your road car. i doubt that's the case nowadays though; everything is purpose-built and engineered to the atom for the task that needs to be done.

I wonder what task the c63 is made for then. Pure tire shredding :laugh:
 
i feel the same way. offering cars that appeal to younger buyers gets away with the oldman image better.

but it's always good to know that your enthusiast brand of choice is also implicated in motorsports. it's like it makes you think that what they learn on the track probably trickles down into your road car. i doubt that's the case nowadays though; everything is purpose-built and engineered to the atom for the task that needs to be done.
Hire a young flashy F1 driver, social media the hell out of the team and then win titles. Make road cars that appeal to all ages and good price ranges. Mercedes has made their money back from F1. They are hammering BMW in sales. Mercedes has something for everyone these day

Sadly BMW is lost in translation...

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BMW got lost in translation when their M cars were no longer top dogs. The regular 3 series still sells well, not sure about the 5, and the 7 was hit with the same bland stick as the Audi A8. Once the M cars were no longer the best sports sedans, everything started to tumble imho. Mercedes showed up, brought flashy and loud to the party and ran away with the girls. And Audi is still learning how to build a rwd platform so it can party with the adults.
 
BMW got lost in translation when their M cars were no longer top dogs. The regular 3 series still sells well, not sure about the 5, and the 7 was hit with the same bland stick as the Audi A8. Once the M cars were no longer the best sports sedans, everything started to tumble imho. Mercedes showed up, brought flashy and loud to the party and ran away with the girls. And Audi is still learning how to build a rwd platform so it can party with the adults.
The next gen M5 will likely have AWD as the E63 already does. Could it trickle down the the M3 and C63? Possibly as those platforms already support AWD.



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I don’t understand why the C43 gets AWD but the C63 doesn’t. I still find the new 5 to be bland, looks wise. Hasn’t BMW’s sales declined in the last few years?
 
I don’t understand why the C43 gets AWD but the C63 doesn’t. I still find the new 5 to be bland, looks wise. Hasn’t BMW’s sales declined in the last few years?
probably the V8TT and transfer case for all-wheel drive doesn't fit in a C-series.

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probably the V8TT and transfer case for all-wheel drive doesn't fit in a C-series.

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I was told by a Benz rep last year at CIAS that AWD wasn't added because they actually wished to keep the C63 RWD. Maybe the next generation will have it as the new M3 will likely be AWD. Packing on the V8TT is rather compact

So it seems it's a "purist" choice for now. I'm willing to bet the AWD system does fit the V8 as both 7g and 9g gearboxes already have AWD applications. The 4matic system is rather compact as well

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I was told by a Benz rep last year at CIAS that AWD wasn't added because they actually wished to keep the C63 RWD. Maybe the next generation will have it as the new M3 will likely be AWD. Packing on the V8TT is rather compact

So it seems it's a "purist" choice for now. I'm willing to bet the AWD system does fit the V8 as both 7g and 9g gearboxes already have AWD applications. The 4matic system is rather compact as well

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very cool! the more you know.

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