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Discussion: Building Science - Building a super efficient home

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    Building Science - Building a super efficient home

    So my wife and I always wanted to build a dream house. If we did, short of moving out of province/country that would be our house until we are shipped to an old folks home or are wheeled out in a black bag, we're talking 40-50 years minimum.

    That said I started looking into "Building Science" to design the most efficient and maintenance free house.

    Things I've determined are:

    External insulation is a must, minimum R-20. I'm thinking 3-4 inches of external closed cell spray foam from the bottom of the basement all the way up including the roof for a continuous air/water barrier that's also R-21 to R-28.
    Metal siding and Roof. Most come with 50 year warranties
    Ductless Heat pump + ERV for clean air around the house

    There's much more I've come across but these are the major points. Have any of you recently done a high efficiency, a net zero or Net Zero ready (everything but the solar panels) home. I'm looking for suggestions and/or ideas to build smarter.
    Today's mighty oak is yesterday's nut that held it's ground.

    A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.

    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society


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    Roof you need much more than walls. My father's house has like R-60+ on the roof.

    Geothermal, solar array, wind turbine even
    Water collection, floor heat, name it.

    The only huge downside to a net zero house is that usually they have really small windows and badly placed, because they only design based on efficiency not the fact that light is positive in an living environment...

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    Citation Envoyé par MrSpace Voir le message
    Roof you need much more than walls. My father's house has like R-60+ on the roof.

    Geothermal, solar array, wind turbine even
    Water collection, floor heat, name it.

    The only huge downside to a net zero house is that usually they have really small windows and badly placed, because they only design based on efficiency not the fact that light is positive in an living environment...

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
    Thanks for the reply.

    For sure there will be more insulation. The outside insulation is just to avoid thermal bridging. Basically a continuous R-20 will keep the OSB sheets warm and then the remainder, another 20 in the walls and 40 in the roof, would be on the inside, most likely Rockwool.

    Definitely thinking solar + small windmill. Geothermal, I'm disappointed with what I'm seeing in terms of dollars spent versus returns.

    As far as Net zero, not an absolute. Definitely not going to go crazy trying to achieve it with small windows. I've been in houses that feel like caves, not nice at all. Will just need to consider good triple pane with a high solar gain + awning or overhang to block direct sunlight in summer.

    Today's mighty oak is yesterday's nut that held it's ground.

    A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.

    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society

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    We have done a few Net Zero & Passivhaus projects with our curtain wall system, wich is one of the most energy efficient "window" system.

    We are specialized in load bearing wood curtain wall meaning that we can replace the structure of a wall with the curtain wall. You can PM me if you want more informations.

    Envoyé de mon LG-H873 en utilisant Tapatalk

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    BOne structure avec isolation intégré




    Ca prend des bonnes fenetres verres triple
    Géothermie
    Panneau solaire
    Éolienne
    Domotique (pour gerer ton éclairage, chauffage, rideau (ensoleillement)
    La plus grande gloire n'est pas de ne jamais tomber, mais de se relever à chaque chute

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    on jase la , mais ça ne serait pas moins cher et plus efficace un bungalow fait en coffrage isolant avec béton de 6'' avec armature ? , tu peux aussi mettre du verre triple pour tes fenêtres

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    Citation Envoyé par 250Rocket Voir le message
    So my wife and I always wanted to build a dream house. If we did, short of moving out of province/country that would be our house until we are shipped to an old folks home or are wheeled out in a black bag, we're talking 40-50 years minimum.

    That said I started looking into "Building Science" to design the most efficient and maintenance free house.

    Things I've determined are:

    External insulation is a must, minimum R-20. I'm thinking 3-4 inches of external closed cell spray foam from the bottom of the basement all the way up including the roof for a continuous air/water barrier that's also R-21 to R-28.
    Metal siding and Roof. Most come with 50 year warranties
    Ductless Heat pump + ERV for clean air around the house

    There's much more I've come across but these are the major points. Have any of you recently done a high efficiency, a net zero or Net Zero ready (everything but the solar panels) home. I'm looking for suggestions and/or ideas to build smarter.
    We use HRVs here, not ERVs. Also what is the relation between a ductless unit + HRV and clean air ?
    "The Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that you're a god or a total bastard. The Iron will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black. I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds."

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    Citation Envoyé par -Mike- Voir le message
    BOne structure avec isolation intégré

    https://bonestructure.ca/wp-content/...53-845x321.jpg


    Ca prend des bonnes fenetres verres triple
    Géothermie
    Panneau solaire
    Éolienne
    Domotique (pour gerer ton éclairage, chauffage, rideau (ensoleillement)
    +1 Bone structure n'a aucun pont thermique, même les attaches sont en matériaux non conducteur! C'est hallucinant le confort intérieur.

    Aussi, pour les overhang nous aussi on pensait devoir absolument mettre ça, mais ça dépend de pas malade facteurs. À midi le soleil est tellement haut que ça entre pas direct, et rendu en PM il est beaucoup moins fort. Dans notre cas les fenêtres sont en majorité côté ouest donc pas eu besoin d'overhang du tout, les rideaux automatique sont bien mieux.

    L'idéal au Québec c'est des arbres feuillus... En été ils bloquent le gros soleil et en hiver ils laissent passer les rayons pour réchauffer.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

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    Funny that nobody mentioned green roofs

    Fabulous-roof-garden-ideas-6.jpg

    Reduction in energy use is an important property of green roofing. By improving the thermal performance of a roof, green roofing allows buildings to better retain their heat during the cooler winter months while reflecting and absorbing solar radiation during the hotter summer months, allowing buildings to remain cooler. A study conducted by Environment Canada found a 26% reduction in summer cooling needs and a 26% reduction in winter heat losses when a green roof is used.[33] With respect to hotter summer weather, green roofing is able to reduce the solar heating of a building by reflecting 27% of solar radiation, absorbing 60% by the vegetation through photosynthesis and evapotranspiration, and absorbing the remaining 13% into the growing medium. Such mitigation of solar radiation has been found to reduce building temperatures by up to 20 °C and reduce energy needs for air-conditioning by 25% to 80%. This reduction in energy required to cool a building in the summer is accompanied by a reduction in energy required to heat a building in the winter, thus reducing the energy requirements of the building year-round which allows the building temperature to be controlled at a lower cost.

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    Citation Envoyé par @cUr@-TL Voir le message
    We use HRVs here, not ERVs. Also what is the relation between a ductless unit + HRV and clean air ?
    I thought it was an Energy Recovery Ventilator that also did humidity exchanges because in cold climates you need to make sure you don't get a super dry house in winter.

    The relationship between the two is that if you build a super tight house all the toxic fumes, CO2 and other undesirable smells stay inside. To combat this you use an HRV or ERV to circulate fresh air on your terms, instead of through leaky walls that let air in. Ductless wall units like Mitsubishi (see other thread) offer cooling and heat, zoned, without the need to clean ducts that will eventually collect dust and potentially other health hazards.

    Change the filters regularly on the two and you should have AAA air quality for a very long time.
    Today's mighty oak is yesterday's nut that held it's ground.

    A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.

    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society

  16. #11
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    Citation Envoyé par MrSpace Voir le message
    +1 Bone structure n'a aucun pont thermique, même les attaches sont en matériaux non conducteur! C'est hallucinant le confort intérieur.

    Aussi, pour les overhang nous aussi on pensait devoir absolument mettre ça, mais ça dépend de pas malade facteurs. À midi le soleil est tellement haut que ça entre pas direct, et rendu en PM il est beaucoup moins fort. Dans notre cas les fenêtres sont en majorité côté ouest donc pas eu besoin d'overhang du tout, les rideaux automatique sont bien mieux.

    L'idéal au Québec c'est des arbres feuillus... En été ils bloquent le gros soleil et en hiver ils laissent passer les rayons pour réchauffer.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
    Le plus gros pont thermique sur les Bone Structure est probablement les murs rideaux d'aluminium mais je ne suis pas capable de trouver d'informations sur ça.

    Autre que ça, leur enveloppe est extrêmement efficace. Je rêve de faire une enveloppe semblable, mais en bois.

    Comme tu dis, la planification du terrain avec l'optimisation de la position de la maison par rapport à l'ensoleillement reste probablement le moyen le plus efficace pour limiter le gain solaire. Pour ce qui est des rideaux automatique, s'ils sont installés à l'intérieur, il ne feront pas une énorme différence compte tenu qu'une fois rendu sur le rideau, l'énergie thermique est déjà à l'intérieur du bâtiment. Ils sont beaucoup plus efficace à l'extérieur, mais c'est plus compliqué d’entretien à ce moment la.

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    Citation Envoyé par flx_bike Voir le message
    Le plus gros pont thermique sur les Bone Structure est probablement les murs rideaux d'aluminium mais je ne suis pas capable de trouver d'informations sur ça.

    Autre que ça, leur enveloppe est extrêmement efficace. Je rêve de faire une enveloppe semblable, mais en bois.

    Comme tu dis, la planification du terrain avec l'optimisation de la position de la maison par rapport à l'ensoleillement reste probablement le moyen le plus efficace pour limiter le gain solaire. Pour ce qui est des rideaux automatique, s'ils sont installés à l'intérieur, il ne feront pas une énorme différence compte tenu qu'une fois rendu sur le rideau, l'énergie thermique est déjà à l'intérieur du bâtiment. Ils sont beaucoup plus efficace à l'extérieur, mais c'est plus compliqué d’entretien à ce moment la.
    J'ai les specs des fenêtres je pourrais te donner ça. C'est québécois cie d'estrie qui les fait.. le hardware est vraiment top notch can scellé serré c'est fou, on entend rien du vent et dehors.

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    Citation Envoyé par MrSpace Voir le message
    J'ai les specs des fenêtres je pourrais te donner ça. C'est québécois cie d'estrie qui les fait.. le hardware est vraiment top notch can scellé serré c'est fou, on entend rien du vent et dehors.

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    Si tu les as je serais vraiment intéressé à les voir!

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    Citation Envoyé par flx_bike Voir le message
    Si tu les as je serais vraiment intéressé à les voir!
    C'est Shalwin de Shawinigan (oops), je vais regarder les specs.

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    Citation Envoyé par 250Rocket Voir le message
    I thought it was an Energy Recovery Ventilator that also did humidity exchanges because in cold climates you need to make sure you don't get a super dry house in winter.

    The relationship between the two is that if you build a super tight house all the toxic fumes, CO2 and other undesirable smells stay inside. To combat this you use an HRV or ERV to circulate fresh air on your terms, instead of through leaky walls that let air in. Ductless wall units like Mitsubishi (see other thread) offer cooling and heat, zoned, without the need to clean ducts that will eventually collect dust and potentially other health hazards.

    Change the filters regularly on the two and you should have AAA air quality for a very long time.
    There's a filter in the central unit that collect dusts and clean your air. I just don't see the advantages of not having duct except not to have to clean them each 10-20 years IF needed. A duct system will be able to catch and clean air way more efficiently than wall mounted heatpumps and a air exchanger like you want needs some duct anyway, might as well connect it to you central system ducts no?

    I'm no expert I'm just asking. I have a central system in my home and damn I love it lol
    Citation Envoyé par KRBissonnette Voir le message
    shut the fuck up no one wants to hear your goody-two shoes law abiding ass, like you've never done anything ''wrong'' before. It just annoys the shit out of me hearing these Helen Lovejoys all the time.

  21. #16
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    Citation Envoyé par 250Rocket Voir le message
    I thought it was an Energy Recovery Ventilator that also did humidity exchanges because in cold climates you need to make sure you don't get a super dry house in winter.

    The relationship between the two is that if you build a super tight house all the toxic fumes, CO2 and other undesirable smells stay inside. To combat this you use an HRV or ERV to circulate fresh air on your terms, instead of through leaky walls that let air in. Ductless wall units like Mitsubishi (see other thread) offer cooling and heat, zoned, without the need to clean ducts that will eventually collect dust and potentially other health hazards.

    Change the filters regularly on the two and you should have AAA air quality for a very long time.
    We do need dryer homes in winter otherwise condensation becomes a problem. We also need proper air changes in tight homes.

    A HRV will exchange air and prevent heatloss to a certain point. Filtration is usually very basic.

    A ductless system can be zoned but you need more than one head, obviously, which brings the price up.

    A central system with a high efficiency filter will be much better at keeping air clean than a ductless unit with basic mesh filters, plus the blowers tend to get very dirty (moldy) on these after a few years, proper care is needed.

    Citation Envoyé par newschooler Voir le message
    There's a filter in the central unit that collect dusts and clean your air. I just don't see the advantages of not having duct except not to have to clean them each 10-20 years IF needed. A duct system will be able to catch and clean air way more efficiently than wall mounted heatpumps and a air exchanger like you want needs some duct anyway, might as well connect it to you central system ducts no?

    I'm no expert I'm just asking. I have a central system in my home and damn I love it lol
    Exactly.

    You can also add a UV system and all sorts of things to kill bacterias and such.

    Central > ductless.
    "The Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that you're a god or a total bastard. The Iron will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black. I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds."

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    Tout ca dans quelle ville, quartier?

    pas toute les ville qui autorise les mur de tole extérieur et/ou toit plat comme les maison Bone généralement.

    Encore une fois, si tu peut "copier" le style d'un quartier, tant mieux, ca simplifie le choix d'emplacement..sinon tu te retrouve loin en banlieu éloigné, sans eua courante.

    Pour ce qui est de déménager définitivement: On sais jamais ce que la vie nous réserve....Je pensais jamais déménager de ma maison précédente pcq elle avait tout ce qu'on cherchais et plusieurs possibilité...mais la vie a fait que j'ai eu une opportunité de sortir de la région de montréal et j'ai sauter dessus....tout est juste mieux en région(mais il faut y travaillé, pcq le transport a pas de bon sens si non)

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    je ne sais pas où vous avez fait vos cours en économie d'énergie et mécanique du bâtiment, mais système central dans une maison c'est mieux? non.

    On fait des maisons novo climat 2,0 avec la compagnie de mes parents, ma boite à beaucoup de certification batiments durables leed or, quelques unes platines, beaucoup silver. J'ai mon leed aussi.
    Je design la semaine et met la main dedans la fin de semaine en construction.

    de là a dire que c'est mauvais, non, mais personne va faire de la régulation pis personne nettoie ca. Il y a certainement plus de contres que de pours !

    anyway, je reviendrais pas sur le sujet, je l'ai épluché assez, même si je donne des avis techniques (qui sont les memes que je me fait payé (1xx$/h) pour et que les clients sont satisfait et que ca marche) , mais MR va toujours me contredire...


    OP, if you're serious, get a consultant in building efficiency. There's a lot of general contractior that are very good in it.

    The best is you do your own research.

    - novoclimat 2.0 is a good way to start.
    - you can compliment your needs with Passivhaus

    Citation Envoyé par AsunaMAXXX Voir le message
    on jase la , mais ça ne serait pas moins cher et plus efficace un bungalow fait en coffrage isolant avec béton de 6'' avec armature ? , tu peux aussi mettre du verre triple pour tes fenêtres
    on en a fait 5 comme ça.

    C'est excessivement efficace, principalement avec l'inertie thermique et le faible taux d,infiltration. isolé intérieur et extérieur par défaut.
    Mes parents c'est ce qu'ils ont.

    on ajoute:
    - Cheminée à convection naturel centrale ( normalement on met l'escalier là )
    - climatiseur aveugle ( encastré), thermopompe air-air ((l'option eau-air aka geothermie est le fun, mais ca déprend de l'emplacement et du budget). la cheminé s'occupe de la distribution.
    - réseau radiant à l'eau jumelé à une thermopompe air-air (l'option eau-air aka geothermie est le fun, mais ca déprend de l'emplacement et du budget)

    Peu importe le système de chauffage choisi, il est important de pouvoir zoner.

    pour le reste, je pense que novo et passivhaus couvre la technique avec les ponts thermiques, la position polaire, etc, etc, etc,

    mais comme vous le savez, tout ca est géré par le $.


    c'est très le fun comme domaine, je l,applique avec mes moyens chez moi, maison 1960, 2300 pi2 (inclu ss), pas siolé, mur ext 2.x4. On ne se prive pas, on ne gèle pas, pis je touche le 4.19$/jour avec hydro.

    Dernière modification par oVeRdOsE ; 01/02/2018 à 13h37.

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    Citation Envoyé par oVeRdOsE Voir le message
    OP, if you're serious, get a consultant in building efficiency. There's a lot of general contractior that are very good in it.

    The best is you do your own research.

    - novoclimat 2.0 is a good way to start.
    - you can compliment your needs with Passivhaus
    I am, timeline is in about 2 years, 2020, to start the build. Right now my goal for 2018 is to come up with a spec and floor plan. Next year I want to hire a consultant to improve my design and make it official.

    I'm reaching out to the MR hive mind to help get feedback on the best practices/materials. I know there is no one right way to do things, it really depends what I want but I'm hoping to get ideas I might not have come across surfing the web myself.

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    Passive-houses is what you need to research, it goes waaaaay beyond what Novoclimat requires. Not dissing Novoclimat 2.0, it's better then the minimum code requirements. It encompasses both the energy usage, ecological footprint & life cycle of the house. Often, the design behind such houses often reduces the need for mechanical equipment (central heating shit) to a minimum. MR's Home Section has a hard-on for HVAC hardware, I think it's cancer.

    Edit: Fuck motorised blinds to control solar gain, use a larger roof overhang or other exterior design tricks to simply block the summer sun... that's all standard stuff under passivhaus concepts.
    0psi .· ` ' / ·. 30psi


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