Florida school shooting

S1FAP said:
I would suggest to try it in the case that turning in the guns is done on a voluntary basis
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Well most states don't keep track of anyone with guns right now anyway...So obviously they won't be able to tell who gave the guns and who didn't, but at least they stop selling them, and those not giving their guns are now illegal so it's at their own risk...

Eventually those who kept their guns illegally will die as life goes on lol and progressively you will have a problem solved.
 
250Rocket said:
Stirred the pot and boy oh boy did it get spicy in here. It seems like the last 80 posts or so just keep on repeating the same things without evolving or addressing fallacies.

So without further ado


1) More gun control. Can both sides acknowledge the following, on one side you have people who know guns and the laws surrounding them and on the other side you have people who are emotional and know shit all. PLEASE, do some research and realize that there is a system in place. Instead of calling to ban AR-15s present logical solutions on how to improve the system. I will cede that the extreme view of no background checks on the other side of the argument is just as dumb but those voices are much fewer in numbers than their ban guns counterpart.

The best example of this is when I hear you can just walk into a gun show and get a gun. Totally false, any retailer regardless of their sales location needs to do a check. What they don't need to do is check if it's a private seller to a private buyer. So the logical thing would be to propose that even private sales need to have checks done.

There's nothing false about the gun-show loop hole you just decided to broaden the definition to suit your argument. When people talk about the gun show loophole it's exactly and specifically about the private sellers to private buyer transactions.


2) Removing guns would lead to more safety. So you take away the right of others to own one to protect the lives of others.....except not really. As has been pointed out, you're removing a method of destruction, not the reason it's happening. Please tell me why it's so hard to fathom that even it a perfect scenario where every single gun in the world is magically gone, people would still try and kill other people. The secondary argument is "Yeah but there would be less deaths with no guns". Still no! What about pulling the fire alarm, getting into a vehicle and running a bunch over as they come out. Or a homemade bomb. Or 2 everyday household cleaners mixed together and put in front of the schools air intake vent. People joke about ban everything but that becomes the case when you focus on the tools of carnage instead of the person and why they're F'd up in the head.

So I guess removing chemical and biological weapons from the planet isn't an overall good? You're just removing a means to do harm not the intent. You remove guns and people will naturally use other means to commit harm, but more likely knives (like they do in the UK) but a person wielding a knife is easier to overpower than a a dude with a semi-automatic weapon.

There wouldn't be less deaths if there less guns? So you're saying there isn't a correlation between gun ownership rates and homicides commited with firearms? Pointing and shooting a gun is a relatively easy way of killing someone as opposed so any of the alternatives you've offered (yeah because this is GTA and I'm going to mow down people with my car so easily)

3) Children activists. LMAO. Kids coming out of schools these days are the dumbest they've probably ever been (on the overall). They don't think, they regurgitate. Add to that the fact that they have little life experience and you got yourselves some good puppets that really tug on the heart strings.

Still call yourself a libertarian?

4) Understanding the second amendment. Again so much misinformation or flawed points. Firstly unlike what one post in this thread states, it's not about active revolution, it's about being the last measure. Those who think that it's useless because the army can totally crush the resistance, I ask you to inform me how the wars in the middle east have gone for the US thus far.

What has not been widely talked about is accountability. In this specific case why is it not being broadcast on every station at all hours saying gun laws weren't the problem this time, that it was the FBI who fucked up hardcore which lead to this event. Where are the calls to reform the mechanisms that further compliment gun control? Nope... Ban AR-15s because they're deadly. But not as deadly as human incompetence.

Lastly just in general, if you really want to prove something, find someone on the other side who agrees. I don't care if you post 100 CNN articles that are anti-gun, if you have a valid point and you can find a piece from the opposing side that agrees with you, example Fox instead of CNN. That is how you know you have a strong argument.
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Funny you should say that because I've never seen you ever post anything that wasn't republican paroting.
 
*VR6* said:
I understand this, but we can't just pretend that everyone will risk everything they have and turn into criminals from one day to another simply because they are pissed that the government is asking for their semi-autos, this is not an hollywood movie, stop acting like all pro-guns will turn from responsible gun owners to murderers because of a law lol, there is surely a way to do it properly.
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btw, handguns account for about 70% of all gun-related homicides every year in the US.

You should think about banning handguns before rifles
 
*VR6* said:
I understand this, but we can't just pretend that everyone will risk everything they have and turn into criminals from one day to another simply because they are pissed that the government is asking for their semi-autos, this is not an hollywood movie, stop acting like all pro-guns will turn from responsible gun owners to murderers because of a law lol, there is surely a way to do it properly.
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I totally get your point, but I just can't phantom a way where this can work in present day America and I'm generally not a fan of the government forcing anything on the people.
 
S1FAP said:
btw, handguns account for about 70% of all gun-related homicides every year in the US.

You should think about banning handguns before rifles
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Check out what I can do with stats you will be astonished :

- We have 4 homicides : 3 homicides where an individual killed a single person using a pistol, 1 homicide where a shooter killed 34
- The first three homicides killed 3 people
- The fourth one killed 34

Hey, if you look closely, 75% of the homicides were done with a pistol :rolleyes:

Nice try ;)


Spiter_01 said:
I totally get your point, but I just can't phantom a way where this can work in present day America and I'm generally not a fan of the government forcing anything on the people.
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Not fan of it either but as a gun owner, I personally would understand that at one point enough is enough no matter how much I love guns, I do realize most Americans won't react like this but I still think it's doable.
 
*VR6* said:
Check out what I can do with stats you will be astonished :

- We have 4 homicides : 3 homicides where an individual killed a single person using a pistol, 1 homicide where a shooter killed 34
- The first three homicides killed 3 people
- The fourth one killed 34

Hey, if you look closely, 75% of the homicides were done with a pistol :rolleyes:

Nice try ;)




Not fan of it either but as a gun owner, I personally would understand that at one point enough is enough no matter how much I love guns, I do realize most Americans won't react like this but I still think it's doable.
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except your numbers are made up
 
S1FAP said:
except your numbers are made up
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Their made up just to show that your stat doesn't prove anything lol...

There will still be thugs shootings at themselves in the streets we will never stop those homicides, but at least the typical school shooter spraying his semi-auto and killing in the two-digits each time will be avoided.

inb4 there will be people getting illegal semi-autos still doing it, YES there will be, it doesn't change the fact and all the others will be avoided.

Comment défendre l'indéfendable, seriously...
 
*VR6* said:
Check out what I can do with stats you will be astonished :

- We have 4 homicides : 3 homicides where an individual killed a single person using a pistol, 1 homicide where a shooter killed 34
- The first three homicides killed 3 people
- The fourth one killed 34

Hey, if you look closely, 75% of the homicides were done with a pistol :rolleyes:

Nice try ;)




Not fan of it either but as a gun owner, I personally would understand that at one point enough is enough no matter how much I love guns, I do realize most Americans won't react like this but I still think it's doable.
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Even then I'd tend to believe that murder victims in general are more likely to killed with a handgun than a riffle. In 2014 there were a little over 8000 gun homicide victims in the US, let's say there a 1000 school shooting victims (which I think is way over the actual figure) and all those were commited with a riffle you'd still be looking at a disproportinatily high number of gun murders being attributed to handguns.
 
Spiter_01 said:
Even then I'd tend to believe that murder victims in general are more likely to killed with a handgun than a riffle. In 2014 there were a little over 8000 gun homicide victims in the US, let's say there a 1000 school shooting victims (which I think is way over the actual figure) and all those were commited with a riffle you'd still be looking at a disproportinatily high number of gun murders being attributed to handguns.
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the leftist media exagerate with 360 school shootings last year. Let's say this is true.

It would mean that:

if handgun victim / shooting = 1
and handgun shootings= 8000
handguns victims are then 8000

If we want the high school shootings to have more victims,

8000/360 = 22,22.

It means that every school shooting would need 23 or more victims per shooting in order for school shootings to make more victims.
 
Spiter_01 said:
Even then I'd tend to believe that murder victims in general are more likely to killed with a handgun than a riffle. In 2014 there were a little over 8000 gun homicide victims in the US, let's say there a 1000 school shooting victims (which I think is way over the actual figure) and all those were commited with a riffle you'd still be looking at a disproportinatily high number of gun murders being attributed to handguns.
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You are probably right, except shooting victims are victims that could totally be avoided, having a disproportionate number of gun murders AFTER the ban isn't a good excuse for saying "Hey, let's just forget it after all, it's not worth it" lol...
 
Quand t'es rendu à vouloir équiper tes profs, non pas contre des terroristes mais bien contre des gens (enfants dans ce cas) de ton propre pays, c'est une preuve que ton pays est en déclin. Les terroristes et autres qui déteste les Américains se régale à voir des nouvelles comme ça. Et c'est nos voisins. Ca fait peur.
 
S1FAP said:
the leftist media exagerate with 360 school shootings last year. Let's say this is true.

It would mean that:

if handgun victim / shooting = 1
and handgun shootings= 8000
handguns victims are then 8000

If we want the high school shootings to have more victims,

8000/360 = 22,22.

It means that every school shooting would need 23 or more victims per shooting in order for school shootings to make more victims.
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School shooting is one type of shooting. The last vegas guy wasn't a student if I reckon.

And I'm actually fascinated that in your opinion, avoided shootings must absolutely out perform avoided handgun shootings in order to be worth it lmao...

How is this even a rule lol?
 
*VR6* said:
School shooting is one type of shooting. The last vegas guy wasn't a student if I reckon.

And I'm actually fascinated that in your opinion, avoided shootings must absolutely out perform avoided handgun shootings in order to be worth it lmao...

How is this even a rule lol?
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it's not a rule, I'm just proving handguns are a bigger problem than rifles, yet you never see the anti-gun crowd asking for a ban on handguns, which is hypocritical
 
S1FAP said:
it's not a rule, I'm just proving handguns are a bigger problem than rifles, yet you never see the anti-gun crowd asking for a ban on handguns, which is hypocritical
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You didn't prove anything lol, but if you ask me, handguns could be banned as well, the only reason I said let's let the handguns if for those snowflakes who think they need handguns to protect their family from murderers lol

In australia they kept handguns but applied strict restrictions (permit, psycho test, yearly exams) which right now is not the case in the states also, so even if we keep the handguns, minimal restrictions would drop the gun deaths considerably as well...

The numbers of death related to pistol is also to the roof because of suicides, people usually don't need AR15 to shoot themselves lol
 
I proved that handguns make more victims each year than rifles. I don't know how you cannot see that.

Anyways I'm cool with permits, tests and shit
 
S1FAP said:
it's not a rule, I'm just proving handguns are a bigger problem than rifles, yet you never see the anti-gun crowd asking for a ban on handguns, which is hypocritical
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because people are completely desensitized to handgun murders, it's a freaking miracle if I'm in the US and there isn't a news report of a murder committed by with a handgun every night.

If you think getting semi-automatic weapons banned was kicking up a storm, just watch the shit show that would ensue if you tried to limit peoples handguns. Even democratic politicians know you can't go that far.
 
S1FAP said:
I proved that handguns make more victims each year than rifles. I don't know how you cannot see that.

Anyways I'm cool with permits, tests and shit
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More handguns victims doesn't mean it's a bigger problem, I have no problem with thugs killing themselves with a handgun, I have no problem with people shooting themselves with a handgun (unfortunate but a rope would have done the same), these people represent a big part of the numbers and you most likely won't be able to reduce that number.

All the shootings victims is another problem, and it's a problem that could be fixed or at least widely reduced after banning semi-autos. The real stat would be to know how many shootings occured with a pistol, then we could talk.
 
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