Florida school shooting

It has been touched upon a few times so far but not fully. Yes it's sad that 17 people lost their lives but in the grand scope of things it's nothing. More than 17 people probably died on the roads that day just in Florida. Hundreds if not thousands of people probably died from heart disease on that one day so why do we get so up in arms about a shooting?

You seriously cant see a difference between a car accident and health issue versus someone picking up a gun and eliminating people for no reason?

If someone from your family would be victim in a shooting like that one would you still think the same?
 
You seriously cant see a difference between a car accident and health issue versus someone picking up a gun and eliminating people for no reason?

If someone from your family would be victim in a shooting like that one would you still think the same?


You mean you do see a difference between a shooting victim, a drunk driving victim and a heart attack victim? All I see is 3 people losing their lives by means that are to some extent out of their control which are all equally sad for their surviving family members. One death does not have more merit over the other because of the way it ended.

And yes I would think the same because I'm not retarded. All these "activists" that couldn't give two fucks about the topic until it happens to them or a family member need to be euthanized. They are the worst kind of people because the are driven by a mix of grief, vengeance and a false sense of "good intentions". This yields the worst kind of solution. Don't get me wrong, I'd be rage filled and probably want to return the favor to that bastard but I wouldn't flip a switch and go from pro-gun to anti-gun.

Remember freedom is not free.
 
Drunk driving victim i’ll give you that.

But all other accidents and heart attacks, yes i do see a difference. Not in the result because yes its always sad that a life was lost, but u can always control health issues and accidents are accidents.
Shooting up a school is no accident.
 
You mean you do see a difference between a shooting victim, a drunk driving victim and a heart attack victim? All I see is 3 people losing their lives by means that are to some extent out of their control which are all equally sad for their surviving family members. One death does not have more merit over the other because of the way it ended.

So your argument is that Americans should accept school shootings as an inherent risk and danger of attending schools? what a shithole of a country if that's the case.

You don't see a difference between, death an accident and murder?
Given your thinking then what Hitler, Mao and Stalin did wasn't that bad.

We know and accept that there are inherent dangers to driving on the roads because accidents happen, that's why we force people to wear seat belts, wear helmets, cars to have air bags, better engineered roads and infrastructure to minimize those risks and odds of accidents occuring.

We know that certain types of foods are linked with higher rates of cardiac problems, we put food warnings, banned certain types of ingredients, charge higher insurance premiums for people who are more likely to develop these health issues.

What exactly has been done to reduce the incidence of school shootings? Some schools have metal detectors but that has more to do with gang violence than shootings.
 
So your argument is that Americans should accept school shootings as an inherent risk and danger of attending schools? what a shithole of a country if that's the case.

You don't see a difference between, death an accident and murder?
Given your thinking then what Hitler, Mao and Stalin did wasn't that bad.

We know and accept that there are inherent dangers to driving on the roads because accidents happen, that's why we force people to wear seat belts, wear helmets, cars to have air bags, better engineered roads and infrastructure to minimize those risks and odds of accidents occuring.

We know that certain types of foods are linked with higher rates of cardiac problems, we put food warnings, banned certain types of ingredients, charge higher insurance premiums for people who are more likely to develop these health issues.

What exactly has been done to reduce the incidence of school shootings? Some schools have metal detectors but that has more to do with gang violence than shootings.

The freedom of owning a firearm comes at the expense of an idiot getting their hands on one and committing a violent act. Just as people accept that their will be car, airplane, medical, etc. related deaths why can't it be the same for firearms. You mention this, that and the other improvement for transport and food but do you really think it's the wild west for firearms. The fact of the matter is that there are quite a few systems out there to keep guns out of the hands of those who should have them. Is it perfect no, can it be improved, sure but law of diminishing returns means you'll never get to absolute zero. Furthermore you'd be more fruitful at saving more young lives by preventing accidental deaths at home due to improper storage. Much more so than implementing a billion more protocols to prevent ALL school shootings. Go back, read: "Low hanging fruits". I wasn't talking apples and bananas but once again I have to methodically explain

There are two perspectives that you are mixing together. That of the person's death and that of the act/event that killed them. Like I said, focusing on the person who died, regardless of the cause, the loss of their life is equal for those around them. You mean to tell me a person has to be more sad because their family member died because of a school shooting vs cancer but not as sad as if in they died in a concentration camp?

Now from the other side, looking at the perpetrator, yeah it's pretty easy to categorize and rate their acts against humanity. The more horrendous the crime, the worse the punishment but again we shouldn't be morning more or less just because it's this vs that. Funny though you list those three. You know why they were so successful, because their population was disarmed. But who needs the second amendment, amiright. It's different here, it could never happen to us.


You tolerate the deaths that happen when the public is armed so you can avoid the hundred thousand fold increase in numbers when they aren't.
 
Ok ok alors si je comprend bien je devrais tolérer le fait que mon kid se fasse peut-être tiré à l’école parce que c’est normal, c’est le même risque qui vient avec le fait d’avoir des voitures etc, etc et que ça en vaut grandement la peine d’être armés pour l’éventuelle possibilité que le gouvernement vire fou et veule tous nous exterminer ?
 
So once they've re-instated prohibition and banned people from driving (solves your impaired driving) shut down all the fast food joints and banned all soft drinks and creature comfort/ cheap / over-saturated and over-processed foods (obesity/heart diseases) banned tobacco (lung dissease/ cancer) , then and only then will it make sense to look at the firearms situation?

Because until you do all the above, deaths will occur ( a death is a death!) and firearms will remain the low hanging, politically charged fruit?

Seeing as they're not going to prohibit any of the above, poverty and poor life choices aren't going anywhere maybe that leaves them looking at the firearms situation.

I mean every other g7 nation in the world is faced with most of these problems. For some reason they don't get the same amount of mass killings. The 'ole saying "An armed society is a polite society" sounds rather hollow at this point.

American exceptionalism calls for a uniquely american solution, but short of banning things left, right and center there has to be ways to make progress and mitigate risks.
 
Ok ok alors si je comprend bien je devrais tolérer le fait que mon kid se fasse peut-être tiré à l’école parce que c’est normal, c’est le même risque qui vient avec le fait d’avoir des voitures etc, etc et que ça en vaut grandement la peine d’être armés pour l’éventuelle possibilité que le gouvernement vire fou et veule tous nous exterminer ?

Y'as autre chose que le gouvernement dans vie.

Juste a regarder le ptit criss de croté qui c'est fait descendre en essayant d'aggresser et de voler un fermier dans l'ouest... ca aurait pas fait les nouvelles en temps normal mais vu que c'est un indien, c'est une grosse bullshit politique.

Je reste en milieu rural, si j'appel la police, je sais qu'elle serra pas la avant 15-30 minutes a moins d'etre chanceux...

Un exemple parmis tant d'autre.
 
Y'as autre chose que le gouvernement dans vie.

Juste a regarder le ptit criss de croté qui c'est fait descendre en essayant d'aggresser et de voler un fermier dans l'ouest... ca aurait pas fait les nouvelles en temps normal mais vu que c'est un indien, c'est une grosse bullshit politique.

Je reste en milieu rural, si j'appel la police, je sais qu'elle serra pas la avant 15-30 minutes a moins d'etre chanceux...

Un exemple parmis tant d'autre.

Cette situation la montre qu'un pistolet dans les mains de joe-blow pour "home and self-defence" c'est pas une situation fantastique. Sans formation, le "marksmanship" sur un range ne se traduis pas nécessairement par une utilisation appropriée when shit hits the fan. Un pistolet soviet de WW2 avec des cartouches qui datent de 1953... sounds legit...

Comment t'explique que le jeune ait manger une balle dans la tête pendant que le farmer essayait "d'enlever les clefs du truck"? Tsé le truck avec lequel il essayaient de se sauver et qui n'appartenait pas a Stanley... Y'a un manque évident de gros bon sens, de tactique et de discipline qui saute aux yeux.

Au final, c'tait un shit show de A à Z, c'est plus un case study of what not to do que d'autres choses.
 
Au final, c'tait un shit show de A à Z, c'est plus un case study of what not to do que d'autres choses.

Exact. Parce qu'il y a surement bin des affaires qui se sont passé qui n'ont pas été mentionné en cour, autant pour Stanley que pour les 3 autres jeunes qui "se souviennent pas trop parce qu'ils étaitent pas a jeun" et avait des témoignages contradictoires pas mal... Ca a pesé gros sur le pourquoi il a été acquité.
 
The freedom of owning a firearm comes at the expense of an idiot getting their hands on one and committing a violent act. Just as people accept that their will be car, airplane, medical, etc. related deaths why can't it be the same for firearms. You mention this, that and the other improvement for transport and food but do you really think it's the wild west for firearms. The fact of the matter is that there are quite a few systems out there to keep guns out of the hands of those who should have them. Is it perfect no, can it be improved, sure but law of diminishing returns means you'll never get to absolute zero. Furthermore you'd be more fruitful at saving more young lives by preventing accidental deaths at home due to improper storage. Much more so than implementing a billion more protocols to prevent ALL school shootings. Go back, read: "Low hanging fruits". I wasn't talking apples and bananas but once again I have to methodically explain

I'd say we accept death's from all those other sources because they serve some other usefull purpose in society, transporting people and goods for examples. Guns don't serve any practical purpose in society besides killing/injuring people. You can say you don't need to be shooting at people it can be only for target practice or hunting, but the fact is that it's main purpose and design is to kill people.

Sure there are some systems, just like there are multiple loop holes, like still being able to buy a gun from gun show is dumb, no background check nothing, as long as the person selling it to you doesn't think you're sketch you're pretty much good. It doesn't make sense that you'd talk about law of deminishing returns and then talk about securing individual household that has a gun in it. How do you even in do that in any practical matter?

There are two perspectives that you are mixing together. That of the person's death and that of the act/event that killed them. Like I said, focusing on the person who died, regardless of the cause, the loss of their life is equal for those around them. You mean to tell me a person has to be more sad because their family member died because of a school shooting vs cancer but not as sad as if in they died in a concentration camp?

Yes, the circumstances in which your loved one's died matters. Do you think the loved one's of someone who opts for physician assisted death to end their suffering from an incurrable diseases and being able to share their last moments surounded by their friends and family will experience the same amount/type of grief as a parent who's daughter was raped/tortured and then murdered?

If you want to think of death as simply the fact of not being alive anymore that's fine, but there are series of events that preceed death that are generally part of the act of dying.

Now from the other side, looking at the perpetrator, yeah it's pretty easy to categorize and rate their acts against humanity. The more horrendous the crime, the worse the punishment but again we shouldn't be morning more or less just because it's this vs that. Funny though you list those three. You know why they were so successful, because their population was disarmed. But who needs the second amendment, amiright. It's different here, it could never happen to us.


You tolerate the deaths that happen when the public is armed so you can avoid the hundred thousand fold increase in numbers when they aren't.

Or you know they were dictators with too much power over their countries and countrymen. Destroyed/weakned any other government instituion that could challenge them. You want to avoid a tyrant? Make sure your government institutions are stronger than any one individual and have the power to constrain these dictators.

Why do you think tyrants/dictators all use the exact same playbook? Arrest/destroy your opposition, directly own or control the media, rewrite the consitution to protect yourself, make sure the military is loyal to you not the country, discredit all other branches of government.

It happened across africa, in turkey recently in venezuela even more recently. You want to avoid to hundreds of thousands of death? Make sure your government can't be taken over by 1 man.
 
I'd say we accept death's from all those other sources because they serve some other usefull purpose in society, transporting people and goods for examples. Guns don't serve any practical purpose in society besides killing/injuring people. You can say you don't need to be shooting at people it can be only for target practice or hunting, but the fact is that it's main purpose and design is to kill people.

Sure there are some systems, just like there are multiple loop holes, like still being able to buy a gun from gun show is dumb, no background check nothing, as long as the person selling it to you doesn't think you're sketch you're pretty much good. It doesn't make sense that you'd talk about law of deminishing returns and then talk about securing individual household that has a gun in it. How do you even in do that in any practical matter?

Or you know they were dictators with too much power over their countries and countrymen. Destroyed/weakned any other government instituion that could challenge them. You want to avoid a tyrant? Make sure your government institutions are stronger than any one individual and have the power to constrain these dictators.

Why do you think tyrants/dictators all use the exact same playbook? Arrest/destroy your opposition, directly own or control the media, rewrite the consitution to protect yourself, make sure the military is loyal to you not the country,disarm the people if they aren't already and discredit all other branches of government.

It happened across africa, in turkey recently in venezuela even more recently. You want to avoid to hundreds of thousands of death? Make sure your government can't be taken over by 1 man.

You still don't understand do you. Most of the time it's not even about using the gun, it's about the repercussions of having it. If you had two towns, republicanville and democratville side by side. In the first, everyone had guns and could use them freely if you broke in and in the second you had 0 guns and strict laws about fighting back. You want to go rob a house, which city do you go do it in.

Guns are the great equalizer. The perp doesn't have that extra assurance to go do whatever. Why do you think 99% attacks happen in gun free zones. The perp feels like they have the upper hand.

That extends to government. You can write all the pretty bullshit you want to justify it to yourself but at the end of the day, the fact is that it's not words on a paper that stop people from doing bad things, it's a superior counter-force by opposing parties that enforce those nice words on a paper. When through subversion all branches of government can be corrupted, the people then become, as a last resort, that opposing force to ensure accountability.

Yes, the circumstances in which your loved one's died matters. Do you think the loved one's of someone who opts for physician assisted death to end their suffering from an incurrable diseases and being able to share their last moments surrounded by their friends and family will experience the same amount/type of grief as a parent who's daughter was raped/tortured and then murdered?

If you want to think of death as simply the fact of not being alive anymore that's fine, but there are series of events that preceed death that are generally part of the act of dying.

What about the grief they experienced when they got the diagnoses, or the grief when things took a turn for the worse? The difference is one is prolonged the other is a shock. Both cases they would have wished their family member was alive and well. But we're diverging for my point. Again the point I'm getting at is if we value life so dearly that a random, statistically improbably event causes people to go batshit crazy about what we need to do to prevent a loss of life, why isn't that same gusto being applied to more likely killers.

Ok ok alors si je comprend bien je devrais tolérer le fait que mon kid se fasse peut-être tiré à l’école parce que c’est normal, c’est le même risque qui vient avec le fait d’avoir des voitures etc, etc et que ça en vaut grandement la peine d’être armés pour l’éventuelle possibilité que le gouvernement vire fou et veule tous nous exterminer ?

Do you not let your kid swim in the ocean because shark attacks? You used the wrong word, it's not normal, it's statistically improbable that a kid will get shot. The odds of getting attacked and killed by a shark are 1 in 3,748,067. From fireworks (1 in 340,733), lightning (1 in 79,746), drowning (1 in 1,134), a car accident (1 in 84).

Since 2010 there have been 133 incidences resulting in 160 deaths and 238 injuries.How many schools, how many children and how many hours of class. There have been more airplane incidences in that time so if you're worried that your kid is going to die in a hail of bullets, don't fly anywhere either.
 
You still don't understand do you. Most of the time it's not even about using the gun, it's about the repercussions of having it. If you had two towns, republicanville and democratville side by side. In the first, everyone had guns and could use them freely if you broke in and in the second you had 0 guns and strict laws about fighting back. You want to go rob a house, which city do you go do it in.

Guns are the great equalizer. The perp doesn't have that extra assurance to go do whatever. Why do you think 99% attacks happen in gun free zones. The perp feels like they have the upper hand.

That extends to government. You can write all the pretty bullshit you want to justify it to yourself but at the end of the day, the fact is that it's not words on a paper that stop people from doing bad things, it's a superior counter-force by opposing parties that enforce those nice words on a paper. When through subversion all branches of government can be corrupted, the people then become, as a last resort, that opposing force to ensure accountability.



What about the grief they experienced when they got the diagnoses, or the grief when things took a turn for the worse? The difference is one is prolonged the other is a shock. Both cases they would have wished their family member was alive and well. But we're diverging for my point. Again the point I'm getting at is if we value life so dearly that a random, statistically improbably event causes people to go batshit crazy about what we need to do to prevent a loss of life, why isn't that same gusto being applied to more likely killers.



Do you not let your kid swim in the ocean because shark attacks? You used the wrong word, it's not normal, it's statistically improbable that a kid will get shot. The odds of getting attacked and killed by a shark are 1 in 3,748,067. From fireworks (1 in 340,733), lightning (1 in 79,746), drowning (1 in 1,134), a car accident (1 in 84).

Since 2010 there have been 133 incidences resulting in 160 deaths and 238 injuries.How many schools, how many children and how many hours of class. There have been more airplane incidences in that time so if you're worried that your kid is going to die in a hail of bullets, don't fly anywhere either.

go masturbate to alex jones more and gtfo of Canada you don't deserve living here
 
I'd say we accept death's from all those other sources because they serve some other usefull purpose in society, transporting people and goods for examples. Guns don't serve any practical purpose in society besides killing/injuring people. You can say you don't need to be shooting at people it can be only for target practice or hunting, but the fact is that it's main purpose and design is to kill people.

Sure there are some systems, just like there are multiple loop holes, like still being able to buy a gun from gun show is dumb, no background check nothing, as long as the person selling it to you doesn't think you're sketch you're pretty much good. It doesn't make sense that you'd talk about law of deminishing returns and then talk about securing individual household that has a gun in it. How do you even in do that in any practical matter?



Yes, the circumstances in which your loved one's died matters. Do you think the loved one's of someone who opts for physician assisted death to end their suffering from an incurrable diseases and being able to share their last moments surounded by their friends and family will experience the same amount/type of grief as a parent who's daughter was raped/tortured and then murdered?

If you want to think of death as simply the fact of not being alive anymore that's fine, but there are series of events that preceed death that are generally part of the act of dying.



Or you know they were dictators with too much power over their countries and countrymen. Destroyed/weakned any other government instituion that could challenge them. You want to avoid a tyrant? Make sure your government institutions are stronger than any one individual and have the power to constrain these dictators.

Why do you think tyrants/dictators all use the exact same playbook? Arrest/destroy your opposition, directly own or control the media, rewrite the consitution to protect yourself, make sure the military is loyal to you not the country, discredit all other branches of government.

It happened across africa, in turkey recently in venezuela even more recently. You want to avoid to hundreds of thousands of death? Make sure your government can't be taken over by 1 man.
My dad is in AZ now and bought his guns at a gun show. The shooting club he joined told him to do so as he doesnt have a state ID. 30 mins later he walked out with 3 hand guns and two rifles
 
Donc si je comprend bien l’argument d’avoir des guns c’est au cas où le gouvernement virerait apeshit et voudrait venir me prendre mes enfants je pourrais leur tirer dessus ?

Le gouvernement viennent déjà prendre les enfants. Ils pensent qu'ils savent mieux ce qui est bon pour l'enfant que les parents, alors ils te l'enlèvent par la force.
 
You seriously cant see a difference between a car accident and health issue versus someone picking up a gun and eliminating people for no reason?

If someone from your family would be victim in a shooting like that one would you still think the same?

Claude Colgan didn't change his narrative when his sister Helene Colgan got shot at the Polytechnique.


Look guys, bottom line is this:

Gun laws would not have prevented the florida school shooting. The kid wanted to do it and planned his shit. He could've gotten a weapon on the black market. Black market and criminals have a tendency to not follow laws.

The reason for owning guns has always been the same: protect yourself from a tyrannical government. What would the governement do if the citizens had no guns? Who knows? That's the scary thing. Who knows. Look at the oregon ranchers story. A bunch of citizens defended themselves and their lands from a tyrannical form of government for weeks. And it happened like 2 years ago.
Don't think tyrannical government can exist? What about warrantless mass surveillance? rising taxes? Cops shooting people for no good reason? Everyday the government adds a small piece towards the control of everything.

USA doesn't have a gun problem, it has a social problem. The only way to ensure that mass shootings won't happen anymore, is to install metal detectors at schools with a number of armed guards depending on the size of the school. I know a shitload of jobless veterans who would love to protect kids as a full-time job.


Now if you agree with these points, cool we're on the same page. If you don't, well shit we're not on the same page but it's gonna stay like this.
 
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