Porsche 919 Evo: 5:19.55 New Ring Record

Gregster said:
Liberty and the FIA are looking into bringing back ground effects but teams say they will need adaptive suspension to make it work properly specifically Mercedes as guess what they have a working model. Wings on ground effects cars were a driver prefrence thing.. as it could add understeer or oversteer.


I'd like to see active suspension but it would need to be a spec part
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Ground effects is the only way to go if they want high downforce without the turbulence. Front wings weren't a choice on a BT49, there wasn't any period, just a front nose cone. They put them back on for the 49C after skirts were banned. The Renualt RE30 also ran wingless at most races too. I also agree active suspension should be a spec part. MotoGP went to spec electronics two years ago and the result has been great at leveling the playing field. No more expensive development electronics from the factory teams has closed the gap. The Dutch TT last Sunday was a spectacle, an incredible 100+ overtakes between 8 riders and the top 15 were separated by 16 seconds at the finish.
 
^^ Dutch TT was insane. I was up and screaming at the tv for the whole 26 laps.

Can you believe that hit between Rossi and Lorenzo and both stayed up?

And Marquez pulling the pin with 3 laps to go... He has what it takes to take the GOAT title from Rossi.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 
Gregster said:
That was the next step for F1 after active suspension, Patrick Head and Newey started experimenting with it. Teams such as Redbull experimented with the active aero concepts such as the flexible wing years ago.. The FIA now mandates the amount of flex parts can have.. Full active aero is banned for safety reasons. The cars would be insanely fast and development costs would be insano. Same in the early days of DRS, drivers would open it up in the corners.
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Isn't that the ultimate goal? Incremental tweaks resulting in a 15% improvement are obviously unimpressive to people like Nemesis so why not go full tilt? As far as costs, I'm fairly certain you can spend a king's ransom 10 times over developing a perfect system but even no name teams could probably get astronomical returns for little money. Something as simple as air brakes, like scoops that popped up under heavy braking would probably shave seconds off the lap times.

I would love to see something like the Pagani Huayra dialed to 11.



NemesisBob said:
You just made my point...that a specially modified one-off (illegal) car with every single technology available (legal or not) along with a special designed tire was required to take 15% off the record. There is a reason for this. It's very possible a 919 running legal WEC rules and without special tires would not have beaten the record which would have been a PR embarrassment Porsche wouldn't want to chance.

This ^^. Active aero is not new. Apart from being insanely fast and expensive it would not solve the problem of turbulence and would only make following another car even worse and not solve the problem of passing in F1. You'd have cars with rudders, elevators, X-wings everywhere. They need to go back to basics, the aero needs to be under the car like it was from the 80's - early 90's and not on top. Bring back flat bottoms and some ground effects, you wouldn't even need wings. The Brabham BT49 and Lotus 78 had enough downforce and raced without a front wing and most circuits would run with hardly any rear wing too.
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Maybe the video I watched didn't go into the full detail but I don't think we're understanding each other. You say one off car, but they could change the livery and made it a "one off" car. My point was they didn't redesign the whole engine, they just took off the restrictor plate. They didn't redesign the chassis or the body panels, they basically removed the headlights and added skirts. I'm sure there was a lot more that went into it but to me it boils down to the equivalence of bolt on parts to a street car. The car was built to certain standards and you can make it faster but achieving the next level means throwing the baby out with the bath water and doing something like dropping in a billet block. Again maybe I didn't get the full details but it seems like they only modified it which in and of itself will carry inherent limitations.

As far as turbulence i would disagree. If anything it should improve the situation. I would imagine that if they could, they would fully modulate aero so that it could tucked in to become slippery like a fish in the straights. It's equally important to have a clean stream of air leaving the car but i'm pretty sure they live with it because that's the better trade off for the moment based on the rules.

Frankly I hate most FIA racing because of that. It's not about building the fastest car with the best driver behind the wheel, it's about racing a rulebook that handicaps technological advancement stopping manufacturers from building the ultimate car because it might be "too dangerous and/or expensive".
 
a deux reprises le "boost" apparait de nul part sans avoir freiner. Turbo spool un alternateur?

c'est effectivement malade le temps établi par la 956C en 1983; et surtout que ce temps ait survécu aussi longtemps. De couper pratiquement 1 minute c'est HUGE...
 
250Rocket said:
Isn't that the ultimate goal? Incremental tweaks resulting in a 15% improvement are obviously unimpressive to people like Nemesis so why not go full tilt? As far as costs, I'm fairly certain you can spend a king's ransom 10 times over developing a perfect system but even no name teams could probably get astronomical returns for little money. Something as simple as air brakes, like scoops that popped up under heavy braking would probably shave seconds off the lap times.

I would love to see something like the Pagani Huayra dialed to 11.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1zXCAPbJYk




Maybe the video I watched didn't go into the full detail but I don't think we're understanding each other. You say one off car, but they could change the livery and made it a "one off" car. My point was they didn't redesign the whole engine, they just took off the restrictor plate. They didn't redesign the chassis or the body panels, they basically removed the headlights and added skirts. I'm sure there was a lot more that went into it but to me it boils down to the equivalence of bolt on parts to a street car. The car was built to certain standards and you can make it faster but achieving the next level means throwing the baby out with the bath water and doing something like dropping in a billet block. Again maybe I didn't get the full details but it seems like they only modified it which in and of itself will carry inherent limitations.

As far as turbulence i would disagree. If anything it should improve the situation. I would imagine that if they could, they would fully modulate aero so that it could tucked in to become slippery like a fish in the straights. It's equally important to have a clean stream of air leaving the car but i'm pretty sure they live with it because that's the better trade off for the moment based on the rules.

Frankly I hate most FIA racing because of that. It's not about building the fastest car with the best driver behind the wheel, it's about racing a rulebook that handicaps technological advancement stopping manufacturers from building the ultimate car because it might be "too dangerous and/or expensive".
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You have to think about safety for the drivers and spectators... Losing a control surface or aero element at high-speed could be disastrous.

Street cars like the lambo or pagani who cares. You aren't going fast enough

The new LMP1 rules for WEC are basically what you want.https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/136760/more-details-of-wec-hypercar-future-revealed
 
250Rocket said:
Isn't that the ultimate goal? Incremental tweaks resulting in a 15% improvement are obviously unimpressive to people like Nemesis so why not go full tilt? As far as costs, I'm fairly certain you can spend a king's ransom 10 times over developing a perfect system but even no name teams could probably get astronomical returns for little money. Something as simple as air brakes, like scoops that popped up under heavy braking would probably shave seconds off the lap times.

I would love to see something like the Pagani Huayra dialed to 11.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1zXCAPbJYk




Maybe the video I watched didn't go into the full detail but I don't think we're understanding each other. You say one off car, but they could change the livery and made it a "one off" car. My point was they didn't redesign the whole engine, they just took off the restrictor plate. They didn't redesign the chassis or the body panels, they basically removed the headlights and added skirts. I'm sure there was a lot more that went into it but to me it boils down to the equivalence of bolt on parts to a street car. The car was built to certain standards and you can make it faster but achieving the next level means throwing the baby out with the bath water and doing something like dropping in a billet block. Again maybe I didn't get the full details but it seems like they only modified it which in and of itself will carry inherent limitations.

As far as turbulence i would disagree. If anything it should improve the situation. I would imagine that if they could, they would fully modulate aero so that it could tucked in to become slippery like a fish in the straights. It's equally important to have a clean stream of air leaving the car but i'm pretty sure they live with it because that's the better trade off for the moment based on the rules.

Frankly I hate most FIA racing because of that. It's not about building the fastest car with the best driver behind the wheel, it's about racing a rulebook that handicaps technological advancement stopping manufacturers from building the ultimate car because it might be "too dangerous and/or expensive".
Click to expand...


Forget active aero, you could get near unlimited downforce with ground effects and venturi tunnels at a fraction of the cost. You can't just go all out, safety is important as Greg says. The AAR Eagle MKIII Toyota could produce 10,000lbs of downforce @ 200mps (with crazy drag though) without the costs associated with active aero. Active aero will just increase costs and benefit the manufacturers with unlimited budgets. Air passing under the car instead of on top has produced good racing with plenty of passing...see Group C, CART, IMSA GT. We need to get privateers back into F1, costs have to come down to get 26-30 car grids again. But like you, I have zero faith in anything Liberty, the FIA, Todt or Ross Brawn come up with. They've already done a heck of a job dismantling this once impressive spectacle.

The 919 is a 'one off' meaning the entire car, aerodynamically, is totally different. The aero package is new, it is not just 'bolt on' parts. The wings, diffusers, side skirts, turning vanes, were all changed with hydraulic active aero and DRS on both front and back wings. You aren't going to gain over 50% more downforce and efficiency without a redesign of the aero package. We'll never know but a TS010 from early 90's with modern compound tires would get close. This car cracked the ribs of 2 drivers in testing.

 
BBQMAN said:
It doesn't matter how you get there and with what car- 5:19 is impressive.
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Exactly

The driver has big balls to drive it at these speeds.You can build a fast car but you need a fast driver too, not every one wants to die at nurburgring lol

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OPBX said:
a deux reprises le "boost" apparait de nul part sans avoir freiner. Turbo spool un alternateur?

c'est effectivement malade le temps établi par la 956C en 1983; et surtout que ce temps ait survécu aussi longtemps. De couper pratiquement 1 minute c'est HUGE...
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Yep.

Ils ont un turbo normal et une turbine séparée qui est attaché au MGU-H.

Le turbo normal boost comme d habitude, et le mgu-h spool comment eux veulent, soit pour emmagasiner l'énergie ou l'ulitised comme boost. Ça leur permet de harvest sans avoir besoin de freiner.

Regardez la différence de vitesse contre la Audi. C'est ridicule.


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NemesisBob said:
Forget active aero, you could get near unlimited downforce with ground effects and venturi tunnels at a fraction of the cost. You can't just go all out, safety is important as Greg says. The AAR Eagle MKIII Toyota could produce 10,000lbs of downforce @ 200mps (with crazy drag though) without the costs associated with active aero. Active aero will just increase costs and benefit the manufacturers with unlimited budgets. Air passing under the car instead of on top has produced good racing with plenty of passing...see Group C, CART, IMSA GT. We need to get privateers back into F1, costs have to come down to get 26-30 car grids again. But like you, I have zero faith in anything Liberty, the FIA, Todt or Ross Brawn come up with. They've already done a heck of a job dismantling this once impressive spectacle.

The 919 is a 'one off' meaning the entire car, aerodynamically, is totally different. The aero package is new, it is not just 'bolt on' parts. The wings, diffusers, side skirts, turning vanes, were all changed with hydraulic active aero and DRS on both front and back wings. You aren't going to gain over 50% more downforce and efficiency without a redesign of the aero package. We'll never know but a TS010 from early 90's with modern compound tires would get close. This car cracked the ribs of 2 drivers in testing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrRcH-M5oP4
Click to expand...

I have faith in Liberty but it will take years to "undo" what Bernie put in place. Then you have Ferrari that veto' any change. Modern tech and sport vs 1960s thinking

It's likely the current power unit will stay minus the MGH-H
 
Dibbs said:
^^ Dutch TT was insane. I was up and screaming at the tv for the whole 26 laps.

Can you believe that hit between Rossi and Lorenzo and both stayed up?

And Marquez pulling the pin with 3 laps to go... He has what it takes to take the GOAT title from Rossi.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


Yeah it was incredible, never seen anything like it. Phillip Island 2015 maybe comes close. Amazing from all that chaos, fairing bashes and contact no one crashed. Marquez given his age will overtake Rossi at this pace but I don't think Rossi is done yet, gut feeling says he will win the championship this year. He should have settled behind Dovi for a podium instead of that risky dive bomb at the last chicane, both gave away points. Final tally at the end....100+ overtakes from the top 8, 175 overtakes from the whole field.

 
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