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Discussion: Ceramic coating before clear bra?

  1. #1
    Avatar de Snail
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    Ceramic coating before clear bra?

    Hello,

    I've heard of many uses of ceramic coatings on top of clear bras, but never the other way around. I'll assume that probably because the clear bra has trouble adhering to the surfacing of something that is hydrophobic. But are there any high quality ceramic coating that can be applied just before the application of a clear bra? Maybe something that doesn't have such a slippery surface?

    I'm asking because I'm weary of a clear bra that is left on the bare painted surface of a car panel for years (maybe even more than a decade) in a place with very hot summers and very cold winters (so pretty strong temp variation, expanding & contracting). My current Mazda3 has had its clear bra (Protex) on since 2014 and it still looks great. This question is about a future car I'd probably buy new.

    Thanks,
    James
    Any car which holds together for a whole race is too heavy.


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    1) yes, ceramic coatings will create an adhesion issue with films.

    2) you shouldn't plan to keep PPF on your vehicle for more than a few years at a time anyways. it's a sacrificial layer that WILL get beat up and take damage over time. On a low mileage car, 5 years is about how long you want to keep it. Some panels may need to be replaced every 2-3 years depending on built up damage.

    3) 2014 Protex was "garbage" film by comparison to today's available films (Protex was bought by XPEL in 2017 and they now use that quality film). In the last 5 years or so, PPF has evolved a good chunk and is very paint friendly, so you don't need to worry about it causing any issues over time.

    Just go with your PPF installed directly on your paint and don't worry about it. You'll be fine

    Full disclosure: I install PPF AND ceramic coatings professionally. I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about.
    Y'all know what I do.

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    Hi Joey,

    Thanks for the input! A few questions though :

    1. When you say PPF panels need to be replaced every 5 years or so on a low-mileage car, why is that? My car has had it on since new and I've put 106,000 km on it, a lot of highway, countryside backroads and have gotten pommeled by debris countless times. Apart from a few minor film damage, it's still holding up great, hasn't yellowed or turned brittle, still looks like OEM sheet metal and hasn't started peeling off.

    2. Why was 2014 Protex "crap"? I'm just genuinely curious, as I've stated above, I've been very satisfied with the product to date, and apart from an installation error which resulted in an exacto knife that made it to the sheet metal and started rusting (I know, right??) but was promptly repaired by a bodyshop of my choice and paid for by Protex, I've been pretty satisfied.

    3. What is your most trusted brand of clear bra for someone who would intend on keeping it on for 10 years? Or would you never recommend anyone from doing that?

    4. I've heard of people sealing with Powerlock (a more traditional sealant) before clear bra application (after clay bar + ironX). Would you recommend this?

    I'm not a detailing expert, so I might just contract this out depending on what needs to be done. I'm curious to try stuff myself, but I'm also a quality freak so...I won't like to digest my own screw-ups. lol
    Any car which holds together for a whole race is too heavy.

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    Not a problem with having concerns or questions.

    1) When I say they should be replaced, it's with the mindset that usually, the people I deal with, put PPF on because they don't want damage to their paint..but they also don't want to see build up of damage in the film. After a few years and mileage, there is a build-up of little scuffs, marks, minor tears and would-be chips in the film...so we replace it. I had 1 guy with a Tesla Model 3 come in 7 months later to replace a fender because it took a large enough rock to tear clean through, but protect the paint itself. I just assumed that on MR, people looking for PPF would be the same.

    2) With regards to 2014 Protex. To start, it wasn't as bad as film from early-mid 2000's, but it was a Chinese-made film with lower quality adhesive. While definitely not as bad as even older options, it will have much more orange peel/texture than newer films, it's not self healing and if you are to remove it, it's likely dried and will not come off easily....and if it does, it will leave the adhesive on the paint which will be a pain to remove. Note that here I'm talking purely of the material. Install and material are 2 different things and the work might have been done flawlessly.

    3) You can't go wrong with the top brands. I use SunTek and STEK, but there's also XPEL that's great. All of them have self-healing finishes and amazing clarity as they are all the top-tier offering in the industry at the moment. Even with that however, I wouldn't go for a 10-year finish. I'd aim for 5 and see how things go at that point as the tech is constantly evolving at the moment with PPF.

    4) Some films have stronger adhesives than others (XPEL for example) at the trade off of slightly more texture in the finish, so XPEL might be ok to put over something like powerlock, but I wouldn't ever recommend using a wax or coating because they are much more slick.

    If you're curious to try installing film yourself, make sure you have an extremely clean working area and a second set of hands...and be willing to lose the money spent on the material (which isn't cheap) in case you mess it up, because that is a possible outcome. (Not trying to discourage you, just trying to give you a heads up)
    Y'all know what I do.

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    Citation Envoyé par JoeyV Voir le message
    Not a problem with having concerns or questions.

    1) When I say they should be replaced, it's with the mindset that usually, the people I deal with, put PPF on because they don't want damage to their paint..but they also don't want to see build up of damage in the film. After a few years and mileage, there is a build-up of little scuffs, marks, minor tears and would-be chips in the film...so we replace it. I had 1 guy with a Tesla Model 3 come in 7 months later to replace a fender because it took a large enough rock to tear clean through, but protect the paint itself. I just assumed that on MR, people looking for PPF would be the same.

    2) With regards to 2014 Protex. To start, it wasn't as bad as film from early-mid 2000's, but it was a Chinese-made film with lower quality adhesive. While definitely not as bad as even older options, it will have much more orange peel/texture than newer films, it's not self healing and if you are to remove it, it's likely dried and will not come off easily....and if it does, it will leave the adhesive on the paint which will be a pain to remove. Note that here I'm talking purely of the material. Install and material are 2 different things and the work might have been done flawlessly.

    3) You can't go wrong with the top brands. I use SunTek and STEK, but there's also XPEL that's great. All of them have self-healing finishes and amazing clarity as they are all the top-tier offering in the industry at the moment. Even with that however, I wouldn't go for a 10-year finish. I'd aim for 5 and see how things go at that point as the tech is constantly evolving at the moment with PPF.

    4) Some films have stronger adhesives than others (XPEL for example) at the trade off of slightly more texture in the finish, so XPEL might be ok to put over something like powerlock, but I wouldn't ever recommend using a wax or coating because they are much more slick.

    If you're curious to try installing film yourself, make sure you have an extremely clean working area and a second set of hands...and be willing to lose the money spent on the material (which isn't cheap) in case you mess it up, because that is a possible outcome. (Not trying to discourage you, just trying to give you a heads up)
    thanks for taking the time to answer! it's really appreciated. I'll definitely be keeping you in mind when I pull the trigger this summer.
    Any car which holds together for a whole race is too heavy.

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