Fermez les frontières, un nouveau virus apparaît: La COVID-19

Spiter_01 said:
The keyword being encouraged, it would have gone a long way. The liberal MP Enrico Ciccone gave an interview this morning about his experience volunteering at a CHSLD. He was only supposed to be doing administrative and janitorial work (I imagine because he has no medical background to be helping out) but one of the nurses got a positive test result back and had to leave immediately so he was thrust into the role of a PBA. 3 people looking after 18 when normally you'd need 8.

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/premier...s/461467/rattrapage-du-mardi-21-avril-2020/27
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They didn't encourage it because it wasn't a smart move. Look it up, the news came out April 3rd. Legault said people that wanted to do that could if they want, but wouldn't encourage it because it could cause more problems rather then make it better.
 
CuddlyJen said:
They didn't encourage it because it wasn't a smart move. Look it up, the news came out April 3rd. Legault said people that wanted to do that could if they want, but wouldn't encourage it because it could cause more problems rather then make it better.
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Again hindsight is 20/20 but more problems than being dead? Hundreds of infected workers that can't come in? Maybe the government didn't grasp what the situation was like on the ground, Legault and team will have to explain themselves in the coming months, now is not the time for it.

Worth noting that many if not most of the doctors helping at CHSLD's are also maintaining their hospital duties. So you're exposing highly needed medical professionals that could potentially contract the virus even with all the PPE and bring it into highly-vulnerable environments like a hospital.
 
Spiter_01 said:
Hindsight is 20/20 but with everyone home shouldn't they have encouraged people to bring their loved ones home if they could from the very beginning?
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No, you need to segregate your populations by risk IMO. Besides that approach fails to acknowledge the obvious: people are in care homes because the loved ones are unable or unwilling to provide appropriate care. They might not be receiving optimal care right now, but elder abuse "out in the open" may just be a lot worse.

Ton gros BS moyen est pas capable de s'occuper de pépé qui chie dans ses shorts a jeun, encore moins 5 beers in. Pis quand Ginette reviens de son shift au IGA, pepere va le pogner et ses chances de survie ne sont pas meilleur a la maison.

It's going to sound insensitive and it is but in our system You can't have your "active" population be stuck at home and unable to work because they're held hostage by dead wood.
 
Spiter_01 said:
Again hindsight is 20/20 but more problems than being dead? Maybe the government didn't grasp what the situation was like on the ground, Legault and team will have to explain themselves in the coming months, now is not the time for it.
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At the moment you would want to pull a parent out of there, they might have been infected without even knowing it. Imagine bringing this in your home, in your immediate family.
Then you go do your weekly grocery shopping, not knowing you are infected yourself....

There's no way to know what the actual outcome would have been, but I believe keeping them where they were was the best solution.
 
kahos said:
No, you need to segregate your populations by risk IMO. Besides that approach fails to acknowledge the obvious: people are in care homes because the loved ones are unable or unwilling to provide appropriate care. They might not be receiving optimal care right now, but elder abuse "out in the open" may just be a lot worse.

Ton gros BS moyen est pas capable de s'occuper de pépé qui chie dans ses shorts a jeun, encore moins 5 beers in. Pis quand Ginette reviens de son shift au IGA, pepere va le pogner et ses chances de survie ne sont pas meilleur a la maison.

It's going to sound insensitive and it is but in our system You can't have your "active" population be stuck at home and unable to work because they're held hostage by dead wood.
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Segregating your most vulnerable population works great when you're able to protect them, so far it seems like they've largely failed at that. I'm sure if you ask the family of dead CHSLD residents many would tell you they regret not pulling them out.

Again I said encourage if you can, it lightens the workload, it's one less infection and vector of transmission and we would probably be looking for fewer emergency staff to help out.

CuddlyJen said:
At the moment you would want to pull a parent out of there, they might have been infected without even knowing it. Imagine bringing this in your home, in your immediate family.
Then you go do your weekly grocery shopping, not knowing you are infected yourself....

There's no way to know what the actual outcome would have been, but I believe keeping them where they were was the best solution.
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People are already going to do their weekly shopping not knowing that they are infected, that's the whole point of social distancing and hygiene rules.
 
People die. It's a fact of life. A fair amount of these folks would've likely died from the next seasonal influenza or other disease within the next year or two.

Is that to be celebrated? Of course not, but it shouldn't paralyze society at large.

And yeah sure, for the sake of what ifs, people will overestimate their ability to provide compassionate care and underestimate the inconvenience / impact on their lives.

The alternative is super strick quarantine of the CHLSD, including staff. They live / work on site and can't go to more than one work site. Can't go shopping / interacting in public else they bring the covid back at work. All necessities delivered to them. Good luck with staff retention and mental health. To do what? extend the life of the sick and elderly?

There's an equilibrium point that needs to be reached. You can't sway too far in either directions (not doing enough / doing too much)

Making end of life an out-sight out-of-mind experience is by design. It's a societal choice we've made.
 
Spiter_01 said:
People are already going to do their weekly shopping not knowing that they are infected, that's the whole point of social distancing and hygiene rules.
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Yes, but it could be alot worse if the elderly were massively pulled out of these homes and brought into their kids homes.

Keeping them away where they currently are removes that risk.
 
kahos said:
People die. It's a fact of life. A fair amount of these folks would've likely died from the next seasonal influenza or other disease within the next year or two.

Is that to be celebrated? Of course not, but it shouldn't paralyze society at large.

And yeah sure, for the sake of what ifs, people will overestimate their ability to provide compassionate care and underestimate the inconvenience / impact on their lives.

The alternative is super strick quarantine of the CHLSD, including staff. They live / work on site and can't go to more than one work site. Can't go shopping / interacting in public else they bring the covid back at work. All necessities delivered to them. Good luck with staff retention and mental health. To do what? extend the life of the sick and elderly?

There's an equilibrium point that needs to be reached. You can't sway too far in either directions (not doing enough / doing too much)

Making end of life an out-sight out-of-mind experience is by design. It's a societal choice we've made.
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J'abonde dans le meme sens que toi.

Que tu veuilles ou pas, il y a un prix associé a chaque vie humaine et si ce prix coute trop cher au fonctionnement de la société, malheureusement, il y a des sacrifices a faire.

Beaucoup de ces gens ne sont pas assez autonomes pour prendre un bain tout seul ou meme se nourrir. Ils sont littéralement en fin de vie.

Tu vas me dire que la societe peut pas les abandonner, mais le simple fait qu'ils soient dans ces centres prouve qu'ils ont deja ete abandonés par leur famille. Leurs propres enfants ont decidé qu'ils n'avaient pas le temps de s'occuper d'eux . Leurs propres enfants ont decide que leur carriere, leur couple, leur bien-etre passait au dessus. Tu peux juste pas blamer les preposés de les abandonner.
 
Hier Legault a dit , les écoles sont pas pret a ouvrir début Mai, tirez vos propre conclusion !!!
J'pense qu'il préparait gentillement les gens a que l'année scolaire est terminé.

Bonne affaire tant qu'a moi.
 
kahos said:
People die. It's a fact of life. A fair amount of these folks would've likely died from the next seasonal influenza or other disease within the next year or two.

Is that to be celebrated? Of course not, but it shouldn't paralyze society at large.

And yeah sure, for the sake of what ifs, people will overestimate their ability to provide compassionate care and underestimate the inconvenience / impact on their lives.

The alternative is super strick quarantine of the CHLSD, including staff. They live / work on site and can't go to more than one work site. Can't go shopping / interacting in public else they bring the covid back at work. All necessities delivered to them. Good luck with staff retention and mental health. To do what? extend the life of the sick and elderly?

There's an equilibrium point that needs to be reached. You can't sway too far in either directions (not doing enough / doing too much)

Making end of life an out-sight out-of-mind experience is by design. It's a societal choice we've made.
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Lol une chance que tu est pas PM.

Ce que tu comprends pas, c’est que si tout réouvre demain comme si de rien n’était, c’est pas juste des vieux dans les chsld qui vont mourrir...

Tu dois être le même gars que si le Québec avait rien fait et qu’on serait dans le trouble pas à peu prêt aurait chialer que le gouvernement aurait du faire un lockdown lol.
Jamais satisfait.
 
kahos said:
People die. It's a fact of life. A fair amount of these folks would've likely died from the next seasonal influenza or other disease within the next year or two.

Is that to be celebrated? Of course not, but it shouldn't paralyze society at large.

And yeah sure, for the sake of what ifs, people will overestimate their ability to provide compassionate care and underestimate the inconvenience / impact on their lives.

The alternative is super strick quarantine of the CHLSD, including staff. They live / work on site and can't go to more than one work site. Can't go shopping / interacting in public else they bring the covid back at work. All necessities delivered to them. Good luck with staff retention and mental health. To do what? extend the life of the sick and elderly?

There's an equilibrium point that needs to be reached. You can't sway too far in either directions (not doing enough / doing too much)

Making end of life an out-sight out-of-mind experience is by design. It's a societal choice we've made.
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I mostly agree with you but whether it's worth all the sacrifice and resources to save the elderly is a matter of personal beliefs. What I would say though is that the government's pleading for doctors to go help in CHSLD (thus the position that these are lives worth saving/catastrophe that we need to avoid) isn't entirely coherent with what seems to be a lack of preventative measures. I don't know what the narrative is that will explain how we've gotten here but at some point explanations will need to be provided. Was the government overly focused on hospitals and the general population and overlooked the most vulnerable? Did they make the decision that allocating limited resources, notably PPE, to hospitals was the right decision? or did they just simply grossly underestimate how vulnerable those care centres are?

There are plenty of intermediary measures, maybe they could have tried staffing earlier in the crisis so that they wouldn't now be in desperation mode? Did you know of the 52 000 people that signed up to volunteer they've only gotten around to screening half of the applications?

CuddlyJen said:
Yes, but it could be alot worse if the elderly were massively pulled out of these homes and brought into their kids homes.

Keeping them away where they currently are removes that risk.
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The entire point was to take them out at the very beginning before they all got infected not now, there's no point in doing it now.
 
350z25 said:
Lol une chance que tu est pas PM.

Ce que tu comprends pas, c’est que si tout réouvre demain comme si de rien n’était, c’est pas juste des vieux dans les chsld qui vont mourrir...

Tu dois être le même gars que si le Québec avait rien fait et qu’on serait dans le trouble pas à peu prêt aurait chialer que le gouvernement aurait du faire un lockdown lol.
Jamais satisfait.
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Tu sautes aux conclusions. Ou est-ce que j'ai écrit ça? Peu importe ce qu'on fait le, résultat va être lourd dans les CHSLD. C'est structurel / chronique comme probème + une population vulnérable fondamentalement. Les stats de personne qui meurent dans un CHLSD y'a pas personne qui s'y intéressait y'a des semaines et on va retourner a s'en contre crisser une fois la crise fini. Y va y avoir des rapports des recommendations puis personne va s'intéresser a l'implémentation. Too bad si la réalité te choque.

J'penses pas qu'on aurait pu faire beaucoup mieux, ni qu'on devrais faire beaucoup plus dans le contexte de crise pour la population générale. Le ratio plus d'effort vs résultats ne vaut pas la peine. Au travail ou a la maison, comme la majorité du monde, je n'ai aucune interaction avec cette population la de toute façon.

Ça ne veux pas dire "rien faire". mais vaut être réaliste dans ce qu'on permet a la population qui n'est pas a risque. (et c'est généralament raisonable a date, mais pas soutenable a long terme)

Ça fais des semaines par chez nous qu'on sait que l'année scolaire est fini et j'suis bien d'accord avec ça. Sa veux pas dire qu'on a arbitrairement tout fermer les dimanches non plus.
 
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KerplunK said:
J’comprend que tu deal avec d’la mortalité dans ta famille mais sérieusement de prendre un p’tit break de MR te ferait du bien à place de chercher la marde à peu près avec tout le monde ici.
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Je cherche da la marde avec tout le monde simplement pcq j'ai dis ce que je pense ? lol et re lol.
Ciboire lache le weed el grand ça fuck ton cerveau su un esti de temps.

T'est souvent le premier a envoyer chier du monde sur le forum, fak ferme donc ta calisse de yeule.
 
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Spiter_01 said:
The entire point was to take them out at the very beginning before they all got infected not now, there's no point in doing it now.
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Define "before". October? December? January?

Even then....most people were at work, both parents. How are you going to take someone that's in this type of place and not have anyone at home to take care of them?

As I said at the beginning, easier said than done.
 
Si on enlève les 850 décès de vieux, ça donne un pourcentage de décès juste en dessous de 1%, en présumant que le nombre de cas déclarés soient réels, quand on sait très bien qu’en réalité il y a bien plus de gens contaminés que les nombres officiels.
J’pense que la meilleure idée serait d’obliger la population à porter des masques en-dehors de chez eux et de rouvrir graduellement tous les secteurs. La propagation continuerait à descendre.
 
Les USA se dirigent vers une autre journée record.

Ça va être beau quand ça va toucher les états du centre et ruraux après leur belle messe pascale
 
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