Store raid

Spiter_01 said:

If BLM is largely a protest to bring attention to the mistreatment of african-americans in the US that's gone on for centuries and continue to be ignored by many, when you finally find yourself in a moment where attention is being paid to the problem and a conversation is happening to say that "All lives matter" is just another way of sweeping the problem under the rug.

A crappy analogy: Someone is asked to give a eulogy and instead of speaking about the deceased they talk about the thousands every year that die of cancer.
Factual sure and not offensive on its own, but in the context maybe just maybe it is offensive if that happens to be someone you cared for?

If you look at BLM as just the culmination of ignoring black people and the problems they face, then responding to a statement about black lives mattering with an all lives matter comment is just the perpetuation of the problem.

Click to expand...

And here we are in 2020, dismissing reality (all lives matter) on account of perceptions so it can better fit some progressive narrative of manufactured outrage at just about everything. This whole twitter drama was a non event.

It's reductive and self-serving to bring this back to a race thing. If anything, it's a classic misdirection away from the actual problems: poverty, healthcare, inequality and a flawed justice system (war on drugs, for profit prisons, etc) Does race play a part in this? Yes, is it the biggest single factor? I doubt it (but it's not PC to ponder that kind of things anymore)

It would be nearly as much of a system failure if a "marginal" white guy (w/ similar background) died but we wouldn't be looking for Pro NBA players to tell us how mad and hurtful they find this to be.

We wouldn't be shopping this to some interest groups that use race as a defining feature: "Hey this is shitty, do you guys want to martyr this dude and run with it?"

Race is a component at the macro level, but it shouldn't turn into the biggest single factor.

The governments handled this pretty well at the onset. All levels of government promptly denounced the actions of that officer / shitty human being and initiated investigations.

They fired all 4 a little bit faster than you'd expect these processes to take to appease the crowds. Body cameras were worn and footage secured, the investigation was conducted and the perpetrator got arrested / charged. How is this not accountability? It was much better than the initial Ahmaud Arbery investigation...

Does it match up to the mob's idea of justice? No, but it was a fairly balanced initial approach. The other 3 have / are about to get charged as well.

They've gotten themselves so amped up that things are happening now that undermines the cause and derails conversations.

It was like people using this as an excuse to play the martyr card (with very limited information) about the death in Toronto. Woman going through a Mental Health episodes blockades herself on a balcony and dies. First reaction? Blame police for Murder? We all know they secretly want to throw colored people off balconies!"

How about you let the independent organisation uncover what happens before manning the barricades. "Oh, she's christian, she wouldn't kill herself." I get Denial, but it doesn't need to become the whole narrative.

The whole knee jerk reaction to everything is counter productive. This just leads to division, fatigue and tribalism. All of which are counter-productive to support for reforms.

Guitar returned, dude arrested. :beer:

kahos said:

And here we are in 2020, dismissing reality (all lives matter) on account of perceptions so it can better fit some progressive narrative of manufactured outrage at just about everything. This whole twitter drama was a non event.

It's reductive and self-serving to bring this back to a race thing. If anything, it's a classic misdirection away from the actual problems: poverty, healthcare, inequality and a flawed justice system (war on drugs, for profit prisons, etc) Does race play a part in this? Yes, is it the biggest single factor? I doubt it (but it's not PC to ponder that kind of things anymore)

It would be nearly as much of a system failure if a "marginal" white guy (w/ similar background) died but we wouldn't be looking for Pro NBA players to tell us how mad and hurtful they find this to be.

We wouldn't be shopping this to some interest groups that use race as a defining feature: "Hey this is shitty, do you guys want to martyr this dude and run with it?"

Race is a component at the macro level, but it shouldn't turn into the biggest single factor.

The governments handled this pretty well at the onset. All levels of government promptly denounced the actions of that officer / shitty human being and initiated investigations.

They fired all 4 a little bit faster than you'd expect these processes to take to appease the crowds. Body cameras were worn and footage secured, the investigation was conducted and the perpetrator got arrested / charged. How is this not accountability? It was much better than the initial Ahmaud Arbery investigation...

Does it match up to the mob's idea of justice? No, but it was a fairly balanced initial approach.

They've gotten themselves so amped up that things are happening now that undermines the cause and derails conversations.

It was like people using this as an excuse to play the martyr card (with very limited information) about the death in Toronto. Woman going through a Mental Health episodes blockades herself on a balcony and dies. First reaction? Blame police for Murder? We all know they secretly want to throw colored people off balconies!"

How about you let the independent organisation uncover what happens before manning the barricades. "Oh, she's christian, she wouldn't kill herself." I get Denial, but it doesn't need to become the whole narrative.

The whole knee jerk reaction to everything is counter productive. This just leads to division, fatigue and tribalism. All of which are counter-productive to support for reforms.

Click to expand...

I don't disagree that the whole tweeter drama was non-sense that didn't need to happen but you're being easily dismissive of the racial component.
I think you're only viewing this from the lens of a single event, the killing of George Floyd. It took until today for charges to be laid on the other 3 officers. You mentioned Ahmaud Arbery, but what about Breoanna Taylor? Remember Eric Garner? What happened to the cop that was charged? He stayed on the force for 5 more years before finally being fired and wasn't indicted. A free man and now he's suing to get his job back.

These aren't the only instances of unarmed black men being killed by police, we only talk about it because they were caught on video and exposed to the world. If that one witness had not been filming we wouldn't be talking about George Floyd, they would have filed a report saying he was resisting arrest and their use of force was justified. You'd have Floyd's family trying to sue to the deep-pocketed police and settling for 100k and the officers would have maybe gotten a suspension.

When it takes the most outrageous circumstances to finally send a cop to jail for killing an innocent unarmed black man, Amber Guyger murder of Botham Jean, can you blame them for wanting to see sentencing before saying justice is being done?

Spiter_01 said:

https://i.imgur.com/0czuhBV.jpg

I don't disagree that the whole tweeter drama was non-sense that didn't need to happen but you're being easily dismissive of the racial component.
I think you're only viewing this from the lens of a single event, the killing of George Floyd. It took until today for charges to be laid on the other 3 officers. You mentioned Ahmaud Arbery, but what about Breoanna Taylor? Remember Eric Garner? What happened to the cop that was charged? He stayed on the force for 5 more years before finally being fired and wasn't indicted. A free man and now he's suing to get his job back.

When it takes the most outrageous circumstances to finally send a cop to jail for killing an innocent unarmed black man, Amber Guyger murder of Botham Jean, can you blame them for wanting to see sentencing before saying justice is being done?

Click to expand...

If you're going to pin it on one thing, Taylor was the victim of the war on drugs, not racism. They didn't just walk in there for shits and giggles to lynch people. They had demonstrated probable cause and a judge signed off on that warrant. She lived in a society where both no knock warrants,the castle doctrines and 2nd amendment get to intersect. She got caught in the middle as the boyfriend was trying to figure out if this was a drug rip, home invasion or police raid. He made the a decision that triggered unfortunate events. Sad. Poster child for racism? Meh. Not my first pick for why this was fucked up.

Garner was a walking heart attack selling cigarettes illegally. Not likely what he wanted to do with his life growing up, I'll give you that. Poverty, lack of education about healthy habits, lack of opportunities, sure. Poor decision making too. It takes two to tango and he resisted arrest. (One of 30+) Had he been right about not selling, he would've been vindicated in court. That's where the facts need to be tried, not on the sidewalk. The narratives that cops are judge / jury /executioner is flawed and that there's an inherent right to physically oppose or disagree is a dangerous one.

Still think racism is the one big reason? It's your prerogative, but I'm not sure his wife shares that sentiment: “I feel that he was murdered unjustly. I don’t even feel like it’s a black-and-white thing, honestly, in my opinion,” Ms. Garner said on NBC’s “Meet the Press.” “I feel like it’s just something that he continued to do. And the police knew.”

Botham Jean is also a symptom of a society scared of their own shadows. He died. I'm not disputing that. Was she prejudiced? likely. But "assuming" racism as if every white person is a closeted KKK member? That's not helpful.

I haven't forgotten these events. All were unfortunate. Most were in fact preventable and maybe not actions that were in the best interest of all parties. Cops and citizens are both a product of their society. Clinging on to a dozen unfortunate events as "undeniable proof" of racial hatred is flawed. Lumping all of these events as some sort of overwhelming proof of racism?

There were billions of interactions between the hundreds of millions of people in the U.S and the hundreds of thousands of law enforcement officers in the U.S. over that timeframe. If those were your strongest arguments, idk...

People aren't asking the real questions: Is a $20 property crime worthy of an arrest/physical restraint? Being arrested and being held accountable are two separate things.

Why is there a drug epidemic right now and do you solve it? vs knocking down doors.

What about all the deaths of black people where the offender isn't of a different racial background or in a position of authority? Is that all the police's fault too?

Sorry If I'm not playing along and blaming it all on racism...

CuddlyJen said:

He was fired from the radio show. It's litterally in the first phrase of the text.

And even with the context, he's not wrong in saying all lives matter.

The play-by-play announcer for NBA team Sacramento Kings has resigned from his job and was fired from his radio show for tweeting "All Lives Matter" amid the George Floyd protests.

Click to expand...

Saying All Lives Matter in the current context is like going to a stranger's funeral and say 'I felt loss too'

Nobody is saying White lives don't matter. They already matter. Maybe this image can help you understand better


Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

kahos said:

If you're going to pin it on one thing, Taylor was the victim of the war on drugs, not racism. They didn't just walk in there for shits and giggles to lynch people. They had demonstrated probable cause and a judge signed off on that warrant. She lived in a society where both no knock warrants,the castle doctrines and 2nd amendment get to intersect. She got caught in the middle as the boyfriend was trying to figure out if this was a drug rip, home invasion or police raid. He made the a decision that triggered unfortunate events. Sad. Poster child for racism? Meh. Not my first pick for why this was fucked up.

Garner was a walking heart attack selling cigarettes illegally. Not likely what he wanted to do with his life growing up, I'll give you that. Poverty, lack of education about healthy habits, lack of opportunities, sure. Poor decision making too. It takes two to tango and he resisted arrest. (One of 30+) Had he been right about not selling, he would've been vindicated in court. That's where the facts need to be tried, not on the sidewalk. The narratives that cops are judge / jury /executioner is flawed and that there's an inherent right to physically oppose or disagree is a dangerous one.

Still think racism is the one big reason? It's your prerogative, but I'm not sure his wife shares that sentiment: “I feel that he was murdered unjustly. I don’t even feel like it’s a black-and-white thing, honestly, in my opinion,” Ms. Garner said on NBC’s “Meet the Press.” “I feel like it’s just something that he continued to do. And the police knew.”

Botham Jean is also a symptom of a society scared of their own shadows. He died. I'm not disputing that. Was she prejudiced? likely. But "assuming" racism as if every white person is a closeted KKK member? That's not helpful.

I haven't forgotten these events. All were unfortunate. Most were in fact preventable and maybe not actions that were in the best interest of all parties. Cops and citizens are both a product of their society. Clinging on to a dozen unfortunate events as "undeniable proof" of racial hatred is flawed. Lumping all of these events as some sort of overwhelming proof of racism?

There were billions of interactions between the hundreds of millions of people in the U.S and the hundreds of thousands of law enforcement officers in the U.S. over that timeframe. If those were your strongest arguments, idk...

People aren't asking the real questions: Is a $20 property crime worthy of an arrest/physical restraint? Being arrested and being held accountable are two separate things.

Why is there a drug epidemic right now and do you solve it? vs knocking down doors.

What about all the deaths of black people where the offender isn't of a different racial background or in a position of authority? Is that all the police's fault too?

Click to expand...

Why do you need to pin it on a single thing? If you're going take that approach we could explain away everything to anything if you try hard enough.

- You know WW2 really was just a repercussion of the winners of WW1 insisting on reparations that economically held down Germany.
- Iran's Shooting of Flight 752 is just a result of heightened tension and conflict in the region by the Islamic regime that came out of the CIA backed coup of 1953.

At a certain point, you have to confront the actual event/situation that are at hand. I'm willing to accept that a large list of macro-level factors lead to these situations but at the end of the day, an individual's action is the direct cause of someone's death. It wasn't decades of a failed war on drugs that had its knee on Floyd's neck. It wasn't poor police training to held Garner in a choke-hold while he was telling them he couldn't breathe. It wasn't a culture of not holding police accountable that stood by and watched for 8 minutes as Floyd went lifeless while screaming for his mother.

Racism isn't just about a bunch of people in robes running around setting crosses on fire and lynching people, it's also the unequal treatment that you'd get throughout life. The "random" enhanced security screening by TSA because you've got a beard and look slightly-middle eastern. The constantly getting pulled over because a black man could never afford a nice car in a legitimate manner. Being hurled insults at and being attacked because you're Asian and "your people are responsible for COVID"

All else being the same in your life, would you want to be treated like how most black men are treated?

CRNKY said:

Guitar returned, dude arrested. :beer:

Click to expand...

Mais, il s'est excusé. Ça compte pas?

Spiter_01 said:

Why do you need to pin it on a single thing? If you're going take that approach we could explain away everything to anything if you try hard enough.

- You know WW2 really was just a repercussion of the winners of WW1 insisting on reparations that economically held down Germany.
- Iran's Shooting of Flight 752 is just a result of heightened tension and conflict in the region by the Islamic regime that came out of the CIA backed coup of 1953.

At a certain point, you have to confront the actual event/situation that are at hand. I'm willing to accept that a large list of macro-level factors lead to these situations but at the end of the day, an individual's action is the direct cause of someone's death. It wasn't decades of a failed war on drugs that had its knee on Floyd's neck. It wasn't poor police training to held Garner in a choke-hold while he was telling them he couldn't breathe. It wasn't a culture of not holding police accountable that stood by and watched for 8 minutes as Floyd went lifeless while screaming for his mother.

Racism isn't just about a bunch of people in robes running around setting crosses on fire and lynching people, it's also the unequal treatment that you'd get throughout life. The "random" enhanced security screening by TSA because you've got a beard and look slightly-middle eastern. The constantly getting pulled over because a black man could never afford a nice car in a legitimate manner. Being hurled insults at and being attacked because you're Asian and "your people are responsible for COVID"

All else being the same in your life, would you want to be treated like how most black men are treated?

Click to expand...

These issues being framed / actively pushed as a "racial" matter is a sign of dysfunctional society. It's being used as the "fall guy" for deeper issues. It makes it easier for people to tune out/ignore.

Discrimination, prejudice and racism maybe interconnected but they're not the same issue. You're conflating them and defaulting to the most egregious of them all as a knee jerk reaction. That's part of the problem.

The fact they're letting people getting away with crying wolf is because it serves their purposes. You can't unite a society behind a divisive/race first approach. That much is known.

Kneel or be deemed racist. How fucked is that? All live matter? OMG take it back? They've got a long road ahead of them...

kahos said:

These issues being framed / actively pushed as a "racial" matter is a sign of dysfunctional society. It's being used as the "fall guy" for deeper issues. It makes it easier for people to tune out/ignore.

Discrimination, prejudice and racism maybe interconnected but they're not the same issue. You're conflating them and defaulting to the most egregious of them all as a knee jerk reaction. That's part of the problem.

The fact they're letting people getting away with crying wolf is because it serves their purposes. You can't unite a society behind a divisive/race first approach. That much is known.

Kneel or be deemed racist. How fucked is that? All live matter? OMG take it back? They've got a long road ahead of them...

Click to expand...

I guess that's where our views fundamentally diverge, "racial matters" in my books are part of the deeper issues that's divided that country and to an extent ours. Racial prejudice and discrimination date back much further than the war on drugs, wealth, and income inequality, and any other explainers you want to point to in the history of the United-States.

You also can't unite society by adopting the "can we move on attitude" of consistently ignoring a persistent problem and broken system. When in the history of mankind has a problem ever been ignored away?

You're taking the most extreme example of SJW crying as the position representing the majority and frankly characterizing something I'm not even sure exists (kneeling or your racist? where?) Just like how everyone in this thread was obsessing over the looters/rioters that make up what minuscule percentage of the protesters?

Maybe it's worth your time to reach out or read any of the thousands of stories shared by people, maybe it'll change your mind about how this is all being twisted into a racially motivated narrative.

espritv8 said:

Ce gars la est spot on. En plus il est noir alors les SJW blancs ''pas racistes du tout'' vont peut être l'écouter.

https://www.facebook.com/thehodgetwins/videos/258641038684978/


''White privilege''

On est en 2020. Je le voit pas personnellement. Mais bon, je suis pas noir alors on va dire que je sais pas de quoi je parle.

Mais je vois des blancs se faire revirer de bord pour des jobs, même si ils sont plus qualifiés, parce qu’on veut représentation ethnique et surtout pas se faire taxer d'employeur raciste.

Je vois des standards différent pour les noirs versus la police. Dans certaines villes et quartiers, le policiers ne les interpellent plus pour des vérifications de routine. Il ferment les yeux quand ils le voient faire des infractions. Ils interviennent seulement quand ils n'ont plus le choix suite a des plaintes.

Je vois un système de justice qui les traite de façon plus clémente parce qu’il y a apparence de préjudice racial.

Je vois une culture violente qui dénigre les femmes avec certains artistes hip hop, qui ont un contenu qui ne passerait jamais avec une autre race.

Je vois une société qui se veut égalitaire, mais qui pointe constamment le ''blanc'' du doigt pour tout les problèmes raciaux.
Tu peut pas être égalitaire et traiter tout le monde pareil, sinon tu te fais traiter de raciste. Et les hypocrites embarquent dans le mouvement parce que c’est a la mode et personne ne veut ternir tête a un noir qui abuse de sa couleur.

Surtout pas les politiciens et les médias. Belle gang de pourritures. Tout ces morts et ces blessés a cause d'eux. Ils ont du sang sur les mains.

Click to expand...

100% fait par le gouvernement Canadien ! Je vous confirme, si vous avez des doutes .

Scooter said:

100% fait par le gouvernement Canadien ! Je vous confirme, si vous avez des doutes .

Click to expand...

If qualifications were the only thing we hired people based upon we wouldn't have taxi drivers with Masters and PhD's.

Spiter_01 said:

I guess that's where our views fundamentally diverge, "racial matters" in my books are part of the deeper issues that's divided that country and to an extent ours. Racial prejudice and discrimination date back much further than the war on drugs, wealth, and income inequality, and any other explainers you want to point to in the history of the United-States.

You also can't unite society by adopting the "can we move on attitude" of consistently ignoring a persistent problem and broken system. When in the history of mankind has a problem ever been ignored away?

You're taking the most extreme example of SJW crying as the position representing the majority and frankly characterizing something I'm not even sure exists (kneeling or your racist? where?) Just like how everyone in this thread was obsessing over the looters/rioters that make up what minuscule percentage of the protesters?

Maybe it's worth your time to reach out or read any of the thousands of stories shared by people, maybe it'll change your mind about how this is all being twisted into a racially motivated narrative.

Click to expand...

Can we agree that education is the only way out of this? And no I don't mean academia, I mean educating people from a moral and macro view point and by putting way more emphasis on teaching critical thinking. Is the cop that pulls 2 black drivers over for every 1 white driver he pulls over a racist, or is he recalling the statistics he was taught at the academy that 70% of black people in the US are at some stage of the correcitonal system? Perspective and fundamentals matter, and this applies to EVERYTHING. I don't think that you would argue that blantantly racist people are for the most part, just ignorant. And no I don't think that that's an oversimplification. Formal education as we know it is a dis-service to everyone, and until that is reformed, we will just continue to circle the toilet bowl that is the current happenings outside each of our windows.

Spiter_01 said:

I guess that's where our views fundamentally diverge, "racial matters" in my books are part of the deeper issues that's divided that country and to an extent ours. Racial prejudice and discrimination date back much further than the war on drugs, wealth, and income inequality, and any other explainers you want to point to in the history of the United-States.

You also can't unite society by adopting the "can we move on attitude" of consistently ignoring a persistent problem and broken system. When in the history of mankind has a problem ever been ignored away?

You're taking the most extreme example of SJW crying as the position representing the majority and frankly characterizing something I'm not even sure exists (kneeling or your racist? where?) Just like how everyone in this thread was obsessing over the looters/rioters that make up what minuscule percentage of the protesters?

Maybe it's worth your time to reach out or read any of the thousands of stories shared by people, maybe it'll change your mind about how this is all being twisted into a racially motivated narrative.

Click to expand...

I've seen people in the crowd demand people kneel as part of protests on twitch times and times again. We've also had the example of this thread were a church segregated their people and got them to kneel.Trying to get the riot police to kneel in front of an angry mob and then getting angry when they won't. As if good / evil was predicated by willingness to take part in a mostly meaningless gesture.

There's a perception that BLM is trying to be the headlining act in a plot where they're a sideshow at best. They're against police brutality, but even more so about very,very specific instances = white on black. Have you given me any examples of police brutality where the victim is Hispanic in this thread? You just can't right? that would be a faux pas! Some people might think you're trying to lessen their plight or take over / re-shape the narrative.

The whole "you're with us or complicit" or "you're with us or against us" won't help them. (And if you are, you better stay on message!)

You can feel bad about colonization and slavery all day if you want. What's the end game here? Decide that land owners in the Deep South enriched themselves at the expanses of black slaves? It's true. Now what? strip them of their land? of their property? and give it to people of a certain ethnic group to make up for it?

Get an extra paid public holiday? Pay less taxes? What exactly are the reparations that ought to be made? You want them to do like we do with first nations? They get a special pre-sentence report that shows how the decks were stacked against them and they should get a lesser sentence?

I support most of the BLM "demands" or calls to actions, so long as they're not done through a racial lens. You can't fix racism with racism. That's just silly.

Scooter said:

100% fait par le gouvernement Canadien ! Je vous confirme, si vous avez des doutes .

Click to expand...

The only systemic racism in 2020 is against white males. I constantly here this term being used and it's cringe worthy like an old person talking computer jargon. Systemic racism means the whole system is against you. Since we are a nation of Laws, the fact that white men have zero recourse against employers based on their skin color or gender, fits the bill of "systematic". What some people of color experience is still racism and it shouldn't happen but they experience isolated racism from specific individuals. Meanwhile as explained, a white male can legally get passed up for a job they're more qualified for because of affirmative action, a.k.a. real systemic racism.

Also, the only thing white people have the privilege of having is the mindset of not being "repressed". White guy doesn't get a job because it goes to a disabled black lesbian, he might bitch about it but in the end he goes back out and applies for 10 other jobs and continues to push until he finds a company that has met their diversity quota or doesn't care about it and hires only based on merit. Meanwhile I see capable people of color cross paths with a singular racist and it's like they were transported back to the slave era and shrink into an imagined state of helplessness where "systemic racism" is to blame not the fact that they gave up. I don't think that's particularly a black thing, it's more a younger generation thing where they give up at the first sign of hardship, but given the fact in recent days I've seen countless morons kneel and denounce their "white privilege", the "oppressed" are definitely over hyping how bad they have it in 2020.

En!vy said:

Can we agree that education is the only way out of this? And no I don't mean academia, I mean educating people from a moral and macro view point and by putting way more emphasis on teaching critical thinking. Is the cop that pulls 2 black drivers over for every 1 white driver he pulls over a racist, or is he recalling the statistics he was taught at the academy that 70% of black people in the US are at some stage of the correcitonal system? Perspective and fundamentals matter, and this applies to EVERYTHING. I don't think that you would argue that blantantly racist people are for the most part, just ignorant. And no I don't think that that's an oversimplification. Formal education as we know it is a dis-service to everyone, and until that is reformed, we will just continue to circle the toilet bowl that is the current happenings outside each of our windows.

Click to expand...

We can all say education is the panacea, but isn't that the equivalent of saying we're living in a disgusting polluted field right now, let's plant some seeds and hope they'll survive through the garbage we surround them with. Most people can't or aren't interested in having civil discourse so does one engage them into learning more outside of a formal k-12 system?

Spiter_01 said:

We can all say education is the panacea, but isn't that the equivalent of saying we're living in a disgusting polluted field right now, let's plant some seeds and hope they'll survive through the garbage we surround them with. Most people can't or aren't interested in having civil discourse so does one engage them into learning more outside of a formal k-12 system?

Click to expand...

kahos said:

I've seen people in the crowd demand people kneel as part of protests on twitch times and times again. We've also had the example of this thread were a church segregated their people and got them to kneel.Trying to get the riot police to kneel in front of an angry mob and then getting angry when they won't. As if good / evil was predicated by willingness to take part in a mostly meaningless gesture.

There's a perception that BLM is trying to be the headlining act in a plot where they're a sideshow at best. They're against police brutality, but even more so about very,very specific instances = white on black. Have you given me any examples of police brutality where the victim is Hispanic in this thread? You just can't right? that would be a faux pas! Some people might think you're trying to lessen their plight or take over / re-shape the narrative.

The whole "you're with us or complicit" or "you're with us or against us" won't help them. (And if you are, you better stay on message!)

You can feel bad about colonization and slavery all day if you want. What's the end game here? Decide that land owners in the Deep South enriched themselves at the expanses of black slaves? It's true. Now what? strip them of their land? of their property? and give it to people of a certain ethnic group to make up for it?

Get an extra paid public holiday? Pay less taxes? What exactly are the reparations that ought to be made? You want them to do like we do with first nations? They get a special pre-sentence report that shows how the decks were stacked against them and they should get a lesser sentence?

I support most of the BLM "demands" or calls to actions, so long as they're not done through a racial lens. You can't fix racism with racism. That's just silly.

Click to expand...

Has there been the same amount of high-profile killing or police brutality against Hispanics? Can you off the top of your head name one? Why don't we hear about more of these incidents involving white or other minorities? Is it only because BLM is so damn good at amplifying the message?

Why are you drawing a line at slavery? Why not include jim crow laws? What about redlining? Can we acknowledge that there is a long history of discrimination and racism against Blacks in the history of that country and it's up to you whether or not you want to see BLM/police violence as a continuation of that long history.

You've talked a lot of about macro-level events and their effects on society. How many black families would be lifted out of poverty and violence if their parents or grandparents would have been able to buy the house they were qualified for but denied on account of being black or able to move into nicer white neighbourhoods? What kind of wealth and educational opportunities they could have generated for their families by the simple fact of owning a home and participating in the wealth creation process?

250Rocket said:

The only systemic racism in 2020 is against white males. I constantly here this term being used and it's cringe worthy like an old person talking computer jargon. Systemic racism means the whole system is against you. Since we are a nation of Laws, the fact that white men have zero recourse against employers based on their skin color or gender, fits the bill of "systematic". What some people of color experience is still racism and it shouldn't happen but they experience isolated racism from specific individuals. Meanwhile as explained, a white male can legally get passed up for a job they're more qualified for because of affirmative action, a.k.a. real systemic racism.

Also, the only thing white people have the privilege of having is the mindset of not being "repressed". White guy doesn't get a job because it goes to a disabled black lesbian, he might bitch about it but in the end he goes back out and applies for 10 other jobs and continues to push until he finds a company that has met their diversity quota or doesn't care about it and hires only based on merit. Meanwhile I see capable people of color cross paths with a singular racist and it's like they were transported back to the slave era and shrink into an imagined state of helplessness where "systemic racism" is to blame not the fact that they gave up. I don't think that's particularly a black thing, it's more a younger generation thing where they give up at the first sign of hardship, but given the fact in recent days I've seen countless morons kneel and denounce their "white privilege", the "oppressed" are definitely over hyping how bad they have it in 2020.

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I don't know man, I never felt that I didn't get a job because they were looking for a black guy lol, not saying some places don't have some quotas or just look at Justin he wanted half woman/man if I remember correctly for his cabinet, so not saying these don't exist, but let's not make a big thing of this.
Again, I don't know anybody that wasn't hired because white man.... or suspecting of that being an issue (of course very hard to know I'll give you that), however I can say (without any confirmation as well) the other way around I suspected a couple of times when race/sexe had a role to play in selecting a candidate in regards to black/woman or both... as well as they're integration to the team by the other members, not cause they were harder to approach or anything. That being said, I've seen in the last 13+ years a lot of improvement, I mean a lot into that area. <--btw speaking from experience as an external observer

Spiter_01 said:

We can all say education is the panacea, but isn't that the equivalent of saying we're living in a disgusting polluted field right now, let's plant some seeds and hope they'll survive through the garbage we surround them with. Most people can't or aren't interested in having civil discourse so does one engage them into learning more outside of a formal k-12 system?

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That is the only way.

Say your voice is heard. Now government wants to hear your proposal. How do you fix it? What is your demand?

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Spiter_01 said:

Has there been the same amount of high-profile killing or police brutality against Hispanics? Can you off the top of your head name one? Why don't we hear about more of these incidents involving white or other minorities? Is it only because BLM is so damn good at amplifying the message?

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I don't know. If there wasn't would it be ethical to wait? Maybe they need their own racially divided special interest group?!

Spiter_01 said:

Why are you drawing a line at slavery? Why not include jim crow laws? What about redlining? Can we acknowledge that there is a long history of discrimination and racism against Blacks in the history of that country and it's up to you whether or not you want to see BLM/police violence as a continuation of that long history.

You've talked a lot of about macro-level events and their effects on society. How many black families would be lifted out of poverty and violence if their parents or grandparents would have been able to buy the house they were qualified for but denied on account of being black or able to move into nicer white neighbourhoods? What kind of wealth and educational opportunities they could have generated for their families by the simple fact of owning a home and participating in the wealth creation process?

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Congrats, you clearly expressed the most concern in this thread for things that have happened in foreign countries before your lifetime.

My ancestors have been in North America since the 16th century. Neither my grand-parents or parents owned land or real estate. I guess they weren't very good at pilfering resources and accumulating wealth... The bank likes to make string me along and pretend that I do. Should I just give it up proactively? Can I even give it up if it's on stolen land? Should I resign from my job so someone else can have a go at it?

So, I'll ask again: What's the endgame here then? We pick ethnic groups one at a time, lament over their woes, present and historical, and then "lift them up" one by one?

Once you've solved police brutality against black, we'll move on to police brutality vs hispanics, than we'll toss a coin and go with either indigenous or middle eastern? Go by a poll on twitter? Maybe indigenous people might feel other groups have cut in line?

We'll daydream and wonder: what if the irish famine never happened? What if the holomodor never happened? What if the British North American Act and Indian Act were never enacted? How do we fix this?

Sounds like it would be easier to just be against police brutality and not put blinders on over when/why to get aggrieved but that's just me. People will have to share the soapbox and they may not like it but it is what it is...