New M235i competition comparison

blackyGTI98 · Jun 10, 2020

Totally confused

So if you get a coupe on convertible you still get the ''old'' RWD biased model?

if you get the sedan , you get what they dont like there

Gregster · Jun 10, 2020

blackyGTI98 said:
Totally confused

So if you get a coupe on convertible you still get the ''old'' RWD biased model?

if you get the sedan , you get what they dont like there

It's sorta like when you could have bought an E46 Coupe or Cabrio in 2006 when the E90 Sedan was being made.

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kahos · Jun 10, 2020

blackyGTI98 said:
Totally confused

So if you get a coupe on convertible you still get the ''old'' RWD biased model?

if you get the sedan , you get what they dont like there

Pfft, Sedan. Don't be silly, it's a "gran coupe" (Whatever that means.)

Got to get the wording right! otherwise people might think you're not sophisticated enough to enjoy that fine amorphous blob of an automobile.

Gregster said:
It's sorta like when you could have bought an E46 Coupe or Cabrio in 2006 when the E90 Sedan was being made.

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Nah, those two had too much in common. Generation apart, sure, but more of a rollout necessity than a complete lack of coherence in platform and philosophy.

Gregster · Jun 10, 2020

kahos said:
Pfft, Sedan. Don't be silly, it's a "gran coupe" (Whatever that means.)

Got to get the wording right! otherwise people might think you're not sophisticated enough to enjoy that fine amorphous blob of an automobile.

Nah, those two had too much in common. Generation apart, sure, but more of a rollout necessity than a complete lack of coherence in platform and philosophy.

Not really more of a hold me over until the new model came out. We are seeing it here. Same deal when the E36 was launched you could have still got a new E30... I personally don't care if the car checks the boxes and is fun to drive. Who cares however I won't jump to it acting as of its the best

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persianrider · Jun 10, 2020

*VR6* said:
Dans le viédo ils disent "This car does not deserve an M badge"

Tant qu'à moi n'importe quelle BMW qui a le M suivi de plus qu'un chiffre c'est pas une vrai M, c'est l'équivalent d'un "M package" ou d'un "S line" chez audi et rien d'autre.

Une coupe de logo M partout sur le char, un M sur les trims de bas de porte, pis that's it.

Un M235i ce n'est pas un "M badge" c'est un "M package" that's it on peut passer à autre chose

So here is my beef with what you're saying.....

Audi is the one who started all this BS when they named the S4 what they did. The S4 really is an A4 with a bigger engine and Sline, just like the 340/C450 is.

Reality is the S4/S5 is the competition for the 340/440 with Mpack I and II and the C350/450 with AMG package (which is now called C43 AMG)

BMW and Mercedes didn't start this name bull shit, Audi did

If you think about it, how many times have you seen or heard some idiot who either drives or sees an S4 say "wow S4" , ask them why WOW ? and you'll be surprised some people associate and compare an S4 to an M3 because of the naming scheme

I know a guy who bought an S5 Sportsback and thinks his car is not a competitor to my 440GC with Mpak I and II

Ya we (Montrealracing) or "car enthusiasts" will understand that it's the same shit.... but for 90% of the population S4=M3

So now BMW and Mercedes had to decide, wtf do we do? Remove the 3-440/C450 from the lineup and rename it something else all together or slap the M in front of the 340-440 and AMG on a C43

I think you get my point though, it's all about selling more cars and for people to think they're getting something "cooler/better" than what it really is

kahos · Jun 10, 2020

Gregster said:
Not really more of a hold me over until the new model came out. We are seeing it here. Same deal when the E36 was launched you could have still got a new E30... I personally don't care if the car checks the boxes and is fun to drive. Who cares however I won't jump to it acting as of its the best

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A recent history of the BMW 2 series.

225I

"old" 235I

240I

"New" M235I

Yeah, that makes sense.

Next "M240i" RWD, different platform than "New M235i"

Very clear line up. No brand dilution, clear lineage and trajectory forward.

I learned that a BMM 2 series has doors (2,4 or 5) and driven wheels. That's what they have in common for the most part.

Jeremi01 · Jun 10, 2020

kahos said:
A recent history of the BMW 2 series.

225I

http://s3.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/BMW-225i-13b.jpg

"old" 235I

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/TPvxd6iZ7V4/maxresdefault.jpg

240I

https://storage.googleapis.com/gtspirit/uploads/2017/07/BMW_M240i-xDrive_Coupe_23.jpg

"New" M235I

https://preview.netcarshow.com/BMW-M235i_xDrive_Gran_Coupe-2020-1600-01.jpg

Yeah, that makes sense.

Next "M240i" RWD, different platform than "New M235i"

Very clear line up. No brand dilution, clear lineage and trajectory forward.

I learned that a BMM 2 series has doors (2,4 or 5) and driven wheels. That's what they have in common for the most part.

Ils vont revenir avec la série '1' pour une plateforme RWD/Xdrive

Gregster · Jun 10, 2020

kahos said:
A recent history of the BMW 2 series.

225I

http://s3.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/BMW-225i-13b.jpg

"old" 235I

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/TPvxd6iZ7V4/maxresdefault.jpg

240I

https://storage.googleapis.com/gtspirit/uploads/2017/07/BMW_M240i-xDrive_Coupe_23.jpg

"New" M235I

https://preview.netcarshow.com/BMW-M235i_xDrive_Gran_Coupe-2020-1600-01.jpg

Yeah, that makes sense.

Next "M240i" RWD, different platform than "New M235i"

Very clear line up. No brand dilution, clear lineage and trajectory forward.

I learned that a BMM 2 series has doors (2,4 or 5) and driven wheels. That's what they have in common for the most part.

What do you want me to say? You clearly know absolutely everything. Why are you posting on MR when you can be running BMW

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kahos · Jun 10, 2020

Gregster said:
What do you want me to say? You clearly know absolutely everything. Why are you posting on MR when you can be running BMW

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Nah, I don't think my german is good enough for the boardroom. I trust they know what they're doing with the products themselves, they're just pushing the boundaries of their naming conventions in ways that are interesting to say the least.

The 2 series is very aladeen now. Not sure what to think of it when it's mentionned anymore.

Gregster · Jun 10, 2020

kahos said:
Nah, I don't think my german is good enough for the boardroom. I trust they know what they're doing with the products themselves, they're just pushing the boundaries of their naming conventions in ways that are interesting to say the least.

The 2 series is very aladeen now. Not sure what to think of it when it's mentionned anymore.

https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/6157758_700b.jpg

Bhahahaha

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Rob_SeR · Jun 10, 2020

persianrider said:
So here is my beef with what you're saying.....

Audi is the one who started all this BS when they named the S4 what they did. The S4 really is an A4 with a bigger engine and Sline, just like the 340/C450 is.

Reality is the S4/S5 is the competition for the 340/440 with Mpack I and II and the C350/450 with AMG package (which is now called C43 AMG)

BMW and Mercedes didn't start this name bull shit, Audi did

If you think about it, how many times have you seen or heard some idiot who either drives or sees an S4 say "wow S4" , ask them why WOW ? and you'll be surprised some people associate and compare an S4 to an M3 because of the naming scheme

I know a guy who bought an S5 Sportsback and thinks his car is not a competitor to my 440GC with Mpak I and II

Ya we (Montrealracing) or "car enthusiasts" will understand that it's the same shit.... but for 90% of the population S4=M3

So now BMW and Mercedes had to decide, wtf do we do? Remove the 3-440/C450 from the lineup and rename it something else all together or slap the M in front of the 340-440 and AMG on a C43

I think you get my point though, it's all about selling more cars and for people to think they're getting something "cooler/better" than what it really is

Then again, they don't try to pretend the S4 is an RS4... BMW and Mercedes kinda do when slapping their top of the line badge everywhere. At least Audi created a complete seperate "mainstream" performance line that has it's own identity.

For exemple, BMW could have created à Performance lineup with a P (let's say P340i) instead of slapping the ///M everywhere... That way when you see the P, you know it's more sporty than most, yet, not the sportiest.

blackyGTI98 · Jun 10, 2020

persianrider said:
So here is my beef with what you're saying.....

Audi is the one who started all this BS when they named the S4 what they did. The S4 really is an A4 with a bigger engine and Sline, just like the 340/C450 is.

Reality is the S4/S5 is the competition for the 340/440 with Mpack I and II and the C350/450 with AMG package (which is now called C43 AMG)

BMW and Mercedes didn't start this name bull shit, Audi did

If you think about it, how many times have you seen or heard some idiot who either drives or sees an S4 say "wow S4" , ask them why WOW ? and you'll be surprised some people associate and compare an S4 to an M3 because of the naming scheme

I know a guy who bought an S5 Sportsback and thinks his car is not a competitor to my 440GC with Mpak I and II

Ya we (Montrealracing) or "car enthusiasts" will understand that it's the same shit.... but for 90% of the population S4=M3

So now BMW and Mercedes had to decide, wtf do we do? Remove the 3-440/C450 from the lineup and rename it something else all together or slap the M in front of the 340-440 and AMG on a C43

I think you get my point though, it's all about selling more cars and for people to think they're getting something "cooler/better" than what it really is

Audi S4 driver here and you are correct

For the V8 S4 days and prior (B7,6,5) , it was a direct competitor to the M3

now yes S4 vs 335i , 340i (whatever they're called now)

RS4 Vs M3 for 2019

*VR6* · Jun 10, 2020

persianrider said:
So here is my beef with what you're saying.....

Audi is the one who started all this BS when they named the S4 what they did. The S4 really is an A4 with a bigger engine and Sline, just like the 340/C450 is.

Reality is the S4/S5 is the competition for the 340/440 with Mpack I and II and the C350/450 with AMG package (which is now called C43 AMG)

BMW and Mercedes didn't start this name bull shit, Audi did

If you think about it, how many times have you seen or heard some idiot who either drives or sees an S4 say "wow S4" , ask them why WOW ? and you'll be surprised some people associate and compare an S4 to an M3 because of the naming scheme

I know a guy who bought an S5 Sportsback and thinks his car is not a competitor to my 440GC with Mpak I and II

Ya we (Montrealracing) or "car enthusiasts" will understand that it's the same shit.... but for 90% of the population S4=M3

So now BMW and Mercedes had to decide, wtf do we do? Remove the 3-440/C450 from the lineup and rename it something else all together or slap the M in front of the 340-440 and AMG on a C43

I think you get my point though, it's all about selling more cars and for people to think they're getting something "cooler/better" than what it really is

To be fair, Audi S cars are totally different from Audi cars with S line, different engines, different everything, just like M package cars vs M cars. I think Audi simply has one more level, instead of having « S line*» and then the ultimate «*s*» cars, you have a third «*rs*» line.

BMW can you get a 2 series with an M package, a M235i or an M2 but the first two have the same engine and everything, ain’t no real difference compared to an a4 s-line vs an s4...

persianrider · Jun 10, 2020

I agree the V8 S4 would be the exception

I also agree with what Rob is saying that BMW and Mercedes could have just started a whole new line but then you know what everyone will say? OH NO ANOTHER GOD DAMN MODEL!!! hahaha

It's almost a double edge sword if they were to create a new naming for just 1 specific model of the car being the 340/C450

To be honest I liked it more back in the days when you would see a 330 or 335 and think "nice" but then when you saw the guy with the Mpack on it, it would be "wow" nice!!! MPACK! (because of the rarity)

Audi almost forced both BMW and Mercedes to have to slap the Mpack on all their 340/C450 models and now place the M and AMG on them as well

VR6 I agree the Sline is different than the S but again we're talking about the general population of sheeps here.... for them Sline A4 is almost equivalent to a 340 Mpack.....

I still blame Audi for all this, as genius as the naming scheme is

I think I'm just getting old and cranky and all this naming BS pisses me off.....

SRT-What? · Jun 10, 2020

Actually you should blame BMW and Mercedes for having improved their M and AMG cars way beyond the S models.

Both offer pretty strong engine part of their 'regular line up' (340i, c450) and badass engines part of their real M/ and AMG, which forced Audi to start offering more RS models to compete.

Curious to see where this is going to end now that AMG have their own line-up and sub-AMG trims within their AMG line-up (63 vs 63s ).

lion1 · Jun 10, 2020

*VR6* said:
To be fair, Audi S cars are totally different from Audi cars with S line, different engines, different everything, just like M package cars vs M cars. I think Audi simply has one more level, instead of having « S line*» and then the ultimate «*s*» cars, you have a third «*rs*» line.

BMW can you get a 2 series with an M package, a M235i or an M2 but the first two have the same engine and everything, ain’t no real difference compared to an a4 s-line vs an s4...

M235i= B58 engine
M2=S55

Pas pantoute la même mécanique.

lion1 · Jun 10, 2020

SRT-What? said:
Curious to see where this is going to end now that AMG have their own line-up and sub-AMG trims within their AMG line-up (63 vs 63s ).

La C63AMG sera un hybride 4 cylindre en 2021... En fait à partir de maintenant. Mercedes ont droppé la balle avec les normes européenne de 2021. Il reste pas mal juste BMW qui conserve son I6 TT.

Gregster · Jun 10, 2020

lion1 said:
La C63AMG sera un hybride 4 cylindre en 2021... En fait à partir de maintenant. Mercedes ont droppé la balle avec les normes européenne de 2021. Il reste pas mal juste BMW qui conserve son I6 TT.

I thought it was going I6 Hybrid with that boost on demand KERS system? While the C43 is getting a 4pot. We are lucky we don't have particulate filters here just yet.

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MrSpace · Jun 10, 2020

lion1 said:
La C63AMG sera un hybride 4 cylindre en 2021... En fait à partir de maintenant. Mercedes ont droppé la balle avec les normes européenne de 2021. Il reste pas mal juste BMW qui conserve son I6 TT.

Pis les gens capotaient sur Volvo avec des 4cyl 2L de 415hp

Les chars vont être tous de même plus le temps va avancer! Plus de complexité et désuétude.

Gregster · Jun 10, 2020

MrSpace said:
Pis les gens capotaient sur Volvo avec des 4cyl 2L de 415hp

Les chars vont être tous de même plus le temps va avancer! Plus de complexité et désuétude.

That last sentence is the truth. Anything on the drivetrain will be stupid expensive to repair and all the new stuff will be 48v systems. The BMW G20 is the first BMW designed around 48v

These high strung 4pots won't last more than 100k.

New M235i competition comparison

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