Why Low Octane Gas in Canada?

Je dirais comme dautre ds le thread, sa depend de la demande..

Lorsque je suis aller au Perou, les stations service ont deux choix de LPG, (gaz naturel liquefie.. 2 qualites), 4 sorte dessences sa partait de 89 doctane jusqua 98. 2 a 3 sortes de diesel differents...

Jai vu la meme chose en colombie.. Peut etre que sa la avoir avec laltitude du pays??
 
lion1 said:
Ton char est juste pas tuné pour plus que du 91.

Mon X3 j'ai un JB4 et je met la map avec 93 d'octane, je met du 94 Petrocan. Si je met du 91 oui je sent vraiment une différence, le char roule pas aussi bien et c'est "funky" comme feeling, si je met la map de 91 je perds pas mal de puissance. Sur mon M4 je met aussi du 94, plus par habitude que nécessité car il est stock mais c'est complexe comme moteur, je me dis que ça dois pas nuire.
Click to expand...

je parle plus de gue-guerre entre les différentes marques.
 
Je met du 94 depuis que j'ai la S6, j'en mettais aussi dans mes STi (Stage 1 Cobb 93+)

Les 3 STi quand y faisait -20, ça gueulait pis ça partait tout le temps mais, au combien pénible. Changement de map pour 91 et ça démarrait mieux. (94 allume moins vite que le 91)
Rendu là, que ça me coute 82$ au lieu de 79$ faire un plein, on s'en sacre.
En hiver je vais probablement rouler au 91 dans la S6.

Je connais pas la réponse à la question de OP mais probablement que l'essence vendu ici rencontre les normes pour toutes les voitures qui sont vendues au Canada donc, on a pas besoin de plus :(
 
SilverViper said:
Je suis surpris. Une GT4 doit sûrement prendre du 93 AKI minimum. Vérifie dans ton guide ou sur le bouchon du réservoir.
Click to expand...

crime m'a vérifier ça, peut être que je vais avoir quelque milisecondes gratuites de sauvé sur mon temps à Tremblant :D
 
Same topics come back every couple years.

Octane is needed to run high cylinder pressure. High cylinder pressure delivers more power and we all want more power.

Your car ECU will read the knock sensor and adjust timing (and other settings) to run safely. Running safely doesnt yield the most power.

Shell 91 octane : no ethanol additive, 91 octane. Engine will run optimized settings that runs on 91 octane and benefits from the energy contained in a fuel made of 100% petrolm

Other 91 octabe : will most likely have ethanol additive. Engine will run on optimkzed settings for 91 but will get slightly less BTU out of each combustion because alcohol has les BTU per volume unit than pure petrol.

Petro Canada 94 : has 10% ethanol content , which increases octane to 94. Engine will run optinized settings for 94 octane (more power) but will get slightly less BTU out of each combustion because of alcohol.

How does that translate to you ?

If you have an economy car or dont care about performance, pick the cheapest and call it a day.

If you are interested in getting the most performance out of your car, run the recommended fuel of the manufacturer, preferably Shell 91 since it will have more BTU's in the same volume. Some engine may need to run on 93+.

If you have a modified engine/ECU, depending on the tuning you will most likely want to use the highest amount of octane as to increase boost as much as possible and get much more power.

That was my opinion up to last year.

Now I lean towards adding a water/meth kit which allows to run the cheap 91 fuel found at costco or ultramar and get all the octane you need when makong power through the alcohol injection. The pay back is not that long and you will enable to reach high power levels .
 
Sort of interesting to see the disparities between what's offered at the pumps between countries / regions even.

Colorado offers 85 octane as the "de-facto" regular across most of the state. I've seen pumps offer 85, 87 or 91 as the 3 options there. I think the claim is that higher elevation makes 85 an acceptable substitute to 87. Felt odd to pay a premium for shitty 87.

I believe the actual gasoline is largely dependent on the refineries location. Fuel tankers would come up to Quebec from Vermont everyday to get some of our fuel. Would it be worth the hassle to have "super special U.S blend" and "Canadian spec" at the same facility? Probably not.

I wonder if the U.S "93" isn't simply some 91 "base" with some jacked up additives that aren't "legal" or common in Canada. Might explain why California, with their strict regulations mostly offer 91? Don't we have ethanol in a lot of our blends too?

That's probably what Petro 94 is. Some octane booster to a 91 octane base stock? I doubt they're going to transport the "good stuff" all the way from "their refinery" to wherever your local gas station is.

How do you know you're getting "shell" gasoline? Sounds to me you'd be more likely to get Irving on the east coast or FCL in the prairies? Familiar branding, different supplies?

I think the bigger question is: why does 89 even exist anymore? Why is it even offered? It adds complexity to the dispensers for a product that likely doesn't sell in high volumes. From a technical point of view it's obsolete / unnecessary. I can only think of the Hemi Ram that spec 89 octane. Others go for 87 or 91.
It's probably to play the good old "Good - Better - Best" marketing gimmick and justify the 87 to 91 price delta. If so, fuck em.
 
Rob_SeR said:
J'ai jamais compris les guerres de marques sur l'essence.

Je pense que ça se passe dans la tête vos affaires (dans la majorité des cas) et que les gains/pertes sont mineures quand tu met le bon grade d'essence.

J'ai toujours mis du 91 de n'importe quelle marque et même sur la piste je remarque jamais de différence.
Click to expand...

Moi y'a juste Ultramarde que j'aime pas. J'ai eu des problème avec tout mes auto que j'ai gazé la mais en même temps c'est toujours la même place (sur 8 ans environs donc plusieur voiture différante sur un grand lapse de temps)

Donc je gaz juste ailleur maintenant.
 
SRT-What? said:
Same topics come back every couple years.

(...)

Petro Canada 94 : has 10% ethanol content , which increases octane to 94. Engine will run optinized settings for 94 octane (more power) but will get slightly less BTU out of each combustion because of alcohol.


(...)
Click to expand...

As a chemical engineer, let me tell you there's a lot of bullshit in this tread, including what you said :)

FIRST, ethanol is not THAT bad. People paying for non-ethanol gas thinking they are getting the real thing for performance are missing some thermodynamics and chemistry concepts.

SECOND, each blend of gas have a variation of key ingredients, which include additives. All Petro-Canada gasoline have up to 10% ethanol. 94 is slightly different as it has like 5% of methanol. People mixing those two alcohols to get the 'PeTr0-CaNAdA have 15% EtHan0l' should stay away of any alcohol lol.

THIRD, i'll take my Saabs for exemple :

Saab recommend 93+ AKI octane for best performance. Minimum 87 AKI octane.
Click to expand...

Does that mean my car will be slow as shit with Shell 91 vs Petro 94? Nope, there might be some slight HP loss vs the rated power but that's about it...
 
Lt_Crazy said:
i`ve never used 94 from petro, alwasy 91 Shell cause i was told by my tuner that its better.....ever since then on my performance cars thats what i put.
Click to expand...
Ok...ask him the reason

Rob_SeR said:
crime m'a vérifier ça, peut être que je vais avoir quelque milisecondes gratuites de sauvé sur mon temps à Tremblant :D
Click to expand...
Fais un test. Si tu mets jamais du 94 ...attends jusqu'a tu vide ton tanque....mets du 94 et ecoute le son. Just saying. Je parle de rien d'autre...mais juste le son.

SRT-What? said:
Same topics come back every couple years.

Octane is needed to run high cylinder pressure. High cylinder pressure delivers more power and we all want more power.

Your car ECU will read the knock sensor and adjust timing (and other settings) to run safely. Running safely doesnt yield the most power.

Shell 91 octane : no ethanol additive, 91 octane. Engine will run optimized settings that runs on 91 octane and benefits from the energy contained in a fuel made of 100% petrolm

Other 91 octabe : will most likely have ethanol additive. Engine will run on optimkzed settings for 91 but will get slightly less BTU out of each combustion because alcohol has les BTU per volume unit than pure petrol.

Petro Canada 94 : has 10% ethanol content , which increases octane to 94. Engine will run optinized settings for 94 octane (more power) but will get slightly less BTU out of each combustion because of alcohol.

How does that translate to you ?

If you have an economy car or dont care about performance, pick the cheapest and call it a day.

If you are interested in getting the most performance out of your car, run the recommended fuel of the manufacturer, preferably Shell 91 since it will have more BTU's in the same volume. Some engine may need to run on 93+.

If you have a modified engine/ECU, depending on the tuning you will most likely want to use the highest amount of octane as to increase boost as much as possible and get much more power.

That was my opinion up to last year.

Now I lean towards adding a water/meth kit which allows to run the cheap 91 fuel found at costco or ultramar and get all the octane you need when makong power through the alcohol injection. The pay back is not that long and you will enable to reach high power levels .
Click to expand...
AMEN !!!

tekzou said:
As a chemical engineer, let me tell you there's a lot of bullshit in this tread, including what you said :)

FIRST, ethanol is not THAT bad. People paying for non-ethanol gas thinking they are getting the real thing for performance are missing some thermodynamics and chemistry concepts.

SECOND, each blend of gas have a variation of key ingredients, which include additives. All Petro-Canada gasoline have up to 10% ethanol. 94 is slightly different as it has like 5% of methanol. People mixing those two alcohols to get the 'PeTr0-CaNAdA have 15% EtHan0l' should stay away of any alcohol lol.

THIRD, i'll take my Saabs for exemple :



Does that mean my car will be slow as shit with Shell 91 vs Petro 94? Nope, there might be some slight HP loss vs the rated power but that's about it...
Click to expand...

" FIRST, ethanol is not THAT bad "
All is relative. Do you know why they say is bad at least? Actually now days...you should have the perfect example, if you use alcohol based disinfectant to clean your hands at least 3 times / day. Dry hands? Really? Fells good? Not really.

Fuel intake components can be damaged, fuel pump and all related. Because for people who keep cars long, ( or buy older cars) ethanol dries plastic/rubber , that cracks soon or later.
For what I know, this is why they say is bad.
 
Scooter said:
" FIRST, ethanol is not THAT bad "
All is relative. Do you know why they say is bad at least? Actually now days...you should have the perfect example, if you use alcohol based disinfectant to clean your hands at least 3 times / day. Dry hands? Really? Fells good? Not really.

Fuel intake components can be damaged, fuel pump and all related. Because for people who keep cars long, ( or buy older cars) ethanol dries plastic/rubber , that cracks soon or later.
For what I know, this is why they say is bad.
Click to expand...

I was talking from a combustion stand point. But i you wanna talk about corrosion, let's go :)

Do you drive an old 1940 car? 10% blend was introduced in 1978 Clean Air Act in the USA. 5% more alcohol won't damage anything. Even more, ALL cars since 2001 are made to be used with E15.

That means metal parts that will resist corrosion from the alcohol... We are not talking E60 or E85 blends straight on mild steel here lol.

Alcohol in hand sanitizers remove moisture from your hands ; that's why they dry / cracks. Following your logic removing water from the fuel system isn't a good idea?
 
maxpat82 said:
Mon char est fait pour du 91 et je le roule au 87 de je l’ai 4ans et 75K km. Il a pas exploser!!
Click to expand...

Y'a une marge entre 'a besoin de' et le 'département du marketing s'est rendu compte qu'on pouvais annoncer 8hp de plus de peak power en recommendant du 91 octane'.

Bien souvent la recommendation va aller avec la vocation / le segment aussi.
J'pense il y a des cas ou Toyota recommenderais du 87, mais lexus du 91 pour sensiblement le meme moteur.
 
tekzou said:
I was talking from a combustion stand point. But i you wanna talk about corrosion, let's go :)

Do you drive an old 1940 car? 10% blend was introduced in 1978 Clean Air Act in the USA. 5% more alcohol won't damage anything. Even more, ALL cars since 2001 are made to be used with E15.

That means metal parts that will resist corrosion from the alcohol... We are not talking E60 or E85 blends straight on mild steel here lol.

Alcohol in hand sanitizers remove moisture from your hands ; that's why they dry / cracks. Following your logic removing water from the fuel system isn't a good idea?
Click to expand...


Made to be used with E15 and side effects are different things. Of course they have to try to make it to be used when all gas or most has E10-E15 in it. Logic. Not because there are cigarettes , is healthy to smoke. Or you want to argue that too? My point is, that it does harm 100%. That is more or less , because technology evolves ( BTW was circa 2000 when law was introduced) , is another conversation. Is there harm done on long term? YES. It is corrosive when in contact with certain materials in fuel storage and delivery systems as I had mentioned, including some rubber compounds and the zinc and aluminum alloys used in carburators for example ( yes 1940 cars :squintfin ) .
Intelligence is chasing you ,but you are beating it so far.

Ohh.....those of you using Shell, keep using Shell. It is better. Not a great idea changing from Shell 91 to any E10-E15.
When E10 is added to a fuel system that has been using non ethanol gasoline, the ethanol as a new solvent, will tend to dissolve and loosen deposits that are present in the tank and fuel system. Phase separation may occur, resulting in an maybe 50/50 ethanol and water layer at the bottom of your fuel tank.

According to tekzou, you can add some hand sanitizer as an additive to your fuel tank , so it removes all the water that was created in the process.
Just kidding, in case you thought about doing it. Now days, you need to add disclaimers to whatever you say.
 
On est partie de "J'aimerais savoir la raison pourquoi on a pas de 93 au Canada" à "c'est pas utile mettre plus d'octane" et "l'ethanol c'est de la marde en canne"
 
Rekkless said:
Sadly yes, Petro Canada puts ethanol in all their fuel blends.

View attachment 44407
Click to expand...

Petro-Canada said:
Yes, all of our grades of gas, including our Ultra 94 high octane fuel, contain up to 10% ethanol content. This is required by federal and provincial regulations.
Click to expand...

...yet Shell advertises their 91 Octane as being ethanol free on all of their pump (at least here in Québec). Who's lying? Or is someone's product under a different regulation than the other's because of differing additives?
 
Scooter said:
Made to be used with E15 and side effects are different things. Of course they have to try to make it to be used when all gas or most has E10-E15 in it. Logic. Not because there are cigarettes , is healthy to smoke. Or you want to argue that too? My point is, that it does harm 100%. That is more or less , because technology evolves ( BTW was circa 2000 when law was introduced) , is another conversation. Is there harm done on long term? YES. It is corrosive when in contact with certain materials in fuel storage and delivery systems as I had mentioned, including some rubber compounds and the zinc and aluminum alloys used in carburators for example ( yes 1940 cars :squintfin ) .
Intelligence is chasing you ,but you are beating it so far.

Ohh.....those of you using Shell, keep using Shell. It is better. Not a great idea changing from Shell 91 to any E10-E15.
When E10 is added to a fuel system that has been using non ethanol gasoline, the ethanol as a new solvent, will tend to dissolve and loosen deposits that are present in the tank and fuel system. Phase separation may occur, resulting in an maybe 50/50 ethanol and water layer at the bottom of your fuel tank.

According to tekzou, you can add some hand sanitizer as an additive to your fuel tank , so it removes all the water that was created in the process.
Just kidding, in case you thought about doing it. Now days, you need to add disclaimers to whatever you say.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty confident that isn't true. You can freely mix ethanol-containing and ethanol-free gasoline as much as you like for decades in the same vehicle and reservoir without an issue. That theory almost sounds like someone who got confused with the notion of synthetic oil being used for the first time in an engine which has been using mineral oil for the longest time, which may loosen deposits in the crankcase.

Ethanol-containing gasoline is a blend of gasoline and ethanol, so mixing it with richer gasoline simply creates a further dilution of the ethanol content. Also, ethanol burns cleaner and is a zero-solid particulate-producing fuel, so "no carbon buildup" when using 100% ethanol. Of course, it burns with a ratio of 9 parts air, 1 part fuel, so fuel efficiency takes a hit.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top