The future of Stg 2 and up may be in jeopardy

En!vy

En!vy

Legacy Member
So it looks like this may be the end of Stage 2 tunes and up as the EPA has their new regulations go live starting on Labour Day. Under the new regulations there will be a huge fine for any US business that sells, modifies, or installs any piece of equipment that alters the placement and/or function of the stock catalytic converter. Previously the law in the US would allow for these modification to occur on vehicles not being used on "public roads". That loophole is disappearing. Without the critical mass that the US market provides, I doubt we will see any affordable tuning options continue to prosper here in Canada. I hope I'm wrong.

APR has already pulled all of their downpipes and Stg 2 and up tunes from their website, and told all resellers to cease sale of their products prior to September 7th, 2020.

Stopping Aftermarket Defeat Devices for Vehicles and Engines – This NCI will focus on stopping the manufacture, sale, and installation of aftermarket defeat devices on vehicles and engines used on public roads as well as on nonroad vehicles and engines. Illegally-modified vehicles and engines contribute substantial excess pollution that harms public health and impedes efforts by the EPA, tribes, states and local agencies to plan for and attain air quality standards.
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https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/ep...iorities-enforcement-and-compliance-assurance


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Thanks, coal rolling diesel bros for getting all the karens fired up!

Sort of an ironic move considering they rolledback some of the previous administration's MPG targets. They're not willing to address the elephant in the room: fleets full of ginormous trucks and SUVs but they'll crack down on efficient turbo imports? Sounds like the american way!

I'm guessing there is not shortage of independent tuners that will gladly sell Maps to address that on the down low. You won't get them OTS but E-Tuners / Pro tuners will still be able to work their magic.

It would be a shame if they can't make/sell any sort of aftermarket downpipes. It's one of the most common / significant restrictions on modern turbo cars. You can get some good gains replacing them. I hope they're allowed to sell DPs with high flow cats. Modern cats don't impede performance significantly.

Going Catless can even introduce problematic boost creep on some cars. It's a bit of a dick move on a DD IMO considering the minimal power gains vs increase in pollution / smell.

Europe has it even worse now that particulate filters are becoming mainstream... I doubt the european tuners will be of much help.
 
hugo3499 said:
What is preventing these companies to sell their kits thru their Canadian offices?
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The problem is going to be having the hardware installed state side. Max fine is upwards of $500k USD. How many US tuner shops are going to roll the dice to install a down pipe for a customer with that kind of fine hanging over their head? But the even bigger problem is that moving forward for newly released models, there is little financial upside for any North American business to spend resources developing tunes if the US market is effectively off the table.
 
The environmental lobby is more powerful than the tuner scene lobby. This just means there will be more aftermarket parts dropped shipped from China. I don't see the end to flashes being written either.
 
So I wont be able to pay 2 thousand dollars for a downpipe because it is made by a fancy shop anymore ?
 
NoTop5.0 said:
It is vague. Non road vehicles means what? Race cars, dragster...Nascar gotta have cats now?
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No, but allegedly they're cracking down on the "for off road use / racing use" only checkbox on order forms and the like.

Seeing as it's possible to extrapolate how many people actually convert their late model cars into a 100% dedicated, track only car you'd have a hard time selling tens of thousands of downpipes for mid-range hatchbacks a year. Making it more of the manufacturer's problem to make sure they're used for their intended purposes would squash that market right quick.

It could get pretty dystopian real quick with encrypted ECUs and vehicles with 24/7 LTE connection to the mothership. Both of these are a reality, but they haven't made it so that it sends the EPA to your house just yet.

I hope it doesn't come to that because a lot of vehicles have really shitty OEM tunes. It must be hard to please all the different departments over at corporate nowadays. Nerfed to meet emissions, Rev hang up the wazoo to protect the drivetrain / keep warranty claims down and artificially castrated on orders from the marketing department. Can't disrupt the "established order" and ability to upsell / upcharge.

The WRX is a good example of this. It's got all of these shitty decisions baked in "from the factory". They'd keep the "magouillage" down if they made an honest effort to a change.
 
so you can't even repair an existing vehicle - black market created, smugglers and such until the supply dries up

can 3D printing make such parts?
 
Sustain26 said:
so you can't even repair an existing vehicle - black market created, smugglers and such until the supply dries up

can 3D printing make such parts?
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First of all this only affects the US at the moment, and you can repair an existing car with parts that replicate the OEM function and design and don't bypass emission checks on the vehicle. But this is about the future of the industry. So for example, those hoping to mod an upcoming MK8 Golf R are likely going to have to pay a lot more for tunes, or deal with home baked garage tunes with little after sale support.
 
Gregster said:
So like Cobb and APR already offer ?


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I think what he meant (and I could be wrong) is that we may get to a point where Cobb and APR may elect not to package/ sell any "off the shelf" tunes for compliance's sake.

They're both US based and have such high profile that they would certainly not be able to fly under the radar. If the liability exceeds the potential for revenue they may be forced to shut down that business line.

This means you'd have to get an accessport (or equivalent) and then a dyno tune or an e-tune. Beyond the cost, finding a proper / reputable AWD dyno is not within everyone's reach. ($/distance) E-tunes? Well, it's a long way down to mexico to do a bunch of 3rd gear pulls for data logging purposes... Not sure how comfortable I'd be just loading whatever tune they send back either. I'm a lot more confident in one of COBB's pre-canned tune for long term / street use.

Either that or OEM's get pressured to lock everything down to the point where tuners can't keep up and this becomes a moot point.
 
as much as I agree with this, I can't imagine it's such a big contributor to emissions. The worst offenders would be coal rolling trucks (which never seem to get busted mind you). As more and more daily drivers go towards electric, lesser environmental impact will be attributed to personal transportation.

I'm sure if we all skipped beef once a week, it would more than the entire aftermarket tuning industry combined. I'd happily have a black bean burger + 80hp.
 
Snail said:
as much as I agree with this, I can't imagine it's such a big contributor to emissions. The worst offenders would be coal rolling trucks (which never seem to get busted mind you). As more and more daily drivers go towards electric, lesser environmental impact will be attributed to personal transportation.

I'm sure if we all skipped beef once a week, it would more than the entire aftermarket tuning industry combined. I'd happily have a black bean burger + 80hp.
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It was more about the rampant abuse of the "off road use only" term the EPA isn't stupid. That loophole is now closed. They know it contributes very little but closing the loophole is symbolic. Is the EPA going to go after actual race cars and people with Golf Rs etc? Highly unlikely. They will go after the source who's supplying those parts. It's already happened with some diesel tuners.

I blame the aftermarket industry and SEMA for not lobbying hard enough.



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kahos said:
I think what he meant (and I could be wrong) is that we may get to a point where Cobb and APR may elect not to package/ sell any "off the shelf" tunes for compliance's sake.

They're both US based and have such high profile that they would certainly not be able to fly under the radar. If the liability exceeds the potential for revenue they may be forced to shut down that business line.

This means you'd have to get an accessport (or equivalent) and then a dyno tune or an e-tune. Beyond the cost, finding a proper / reputable AWD dyno is not within everyone's reach. ($/distance) E-tunes? Well, it's a long way down to mexico to do a bunch of 3rd gear pulls for data logging purposes... Not sure how comfortable I'd be just loading whatever tune they send back either. I'm a lot more confident in one of COBB's pre-canned tune for long term / street use.

Either that or OEM's get pressured to lock everything down to the point where tuners can't keep up and this becomes a moot point.
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I was talking about the shitty service from Cobb and APR but good post

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reste qui a rien qui les empeche d'amélioré les tune tout en conservant les emission comme stock. (ou dans le range émis par les autorités)

ca veut dire arrêté de prendre la voie facile d'enlever le catalyseur...qui est pas vraiment un probleme en soit...
c'est comme enlever un silencieux pour gagné de la performance.....c'est pas du 1 pour 1 et tu fais cher toute la population autour de toi quand tu le fais.

Y a moyen d'Avoir de la performance sans pitché toutes les normes d'émissions environnementale par la fenetre en partant.
 
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