asking for a friend(seller):
1 - sold a 2009 Honda Fit manual with 190k km for 4k in October 2021. In the ad, took pics of the outside, inside, and underneath. Rustproofed every 2 years, typical rust underneath a 12 year old Honda in Quebec.
***"No rust on the body" was mentioned in the ad.
2 - buyer did not inspect the car before the transfer.
3 - friend sold the car thru the SAAQ power of attorney (procuration), agreed to write 1$ as the sale price.
4 - buyer comes back the same month in October, went to a Honda dealer for an inspection, found a rust hole behind the heatshield of the muffler. (No way you could have seen it visually looking under the car) Attached pic.
5 - buyer calls, emails, and mails a registered letter in Nov 2021 and notifies of dealership's findings.
6 - seller in good faith, offer #1 compensate 500$ or take the car for 3500$ ( original sold price of 4000 - 500$) *written proof*
7- buyer refuses offer #1
8- seller makes offer #2: to reimburse for everything she spent up to now ( 4000$ + inspection + weathertech mats) *written proof*
9- buyer refuses offer #2
10- buyer proceeds to get a quote from a body shop for 2500$ and proceeds to go ahead regardless and ask seller to pay the bill.
11- buyer threatens legal action
12 - seller received letter from small claims court being sued for the repair bill claiming latent defect(vice caché)
Here’s what we found up to now
In the OPC website:
https://www.opc.gouv.qc.ca/en/consumer/good-service/vehicle/selling-individual/warranties/
“The Civil Code provides a warranty against hidden defects. This means that your vehicle’s buyer could have recourse against you if they discover a hidden defect after the purchase has been completed. A hidden defect is a problem that, had it been known before the purchase, would have prevented the buyer from purchasing the car or led them to negotiate the price downward. A hidden defect is present before the sale but cannot be detected by a buyer who carefully examines the car.
You can ask the buyer to renounce, in writing, the Civil Code warranty, but despite such an agreement, the buyer could have recourse against you if it can be proven that you had knowledge of a defect before you sold your vehicle.”
And in this case, the Civil Code warranty is referred to CCQ article 1726
http://www.legisquebec.gouv.qc.ca/en/version/cs/CCQ-1991?code=se:1726&history=20181002
“ 1726. The seller is bound to warrant the buyer that the property and its accessories are, at the time of the sale, free of latent defects which render it unfit for the use for which it was intended or which so diminish its usefulness that the buyer would not have bought it or paid so high a price if he had been aware of them.
The seller is not bound, however, to warrant against any latent defect known to the buyer or any apparent defect; an apparent defect is a defect that can be perceived by a prudent and diligent buyer without any need of expert assistance.”
now my questions:
did the buyer commit tax fraud? And is my friend, the seller, on the hook even though in section 3 of the PoA, it states:
I declare that I have sold my vehicle for the sum of $ ___ 1____ and my friend signed after
how well does this lawsuit stand? And what recourse does my friend have?
can he just reply to the lawsuit with all the emails in print of my friend trying to:
a. Compensate the buyer 500$ and refused
b. Cancel the sale and compensate her for all incurred cost( and still refused)
c. The buyer is dealing in bad faith and forcing my friend to keep the car and the money.
Thanks for the help guys.
1 - sold a 2009 Honda Fit manual with 190k km for 4k in October 2021. In the ad, took pics of the outside, inside, and underneath. Rustproofed every 2 years, typical rust underneath a 12 year old Honda in Quebec.
***"No rust on the body" was mentioned in the ad.
2 - buyer did not inspect the car before the transfer.
3 - friend sold the car thru the SAAQ power of attorney (procuration), agreed to write 1$ as the sale price.
4 - buyer comes back the same month in October, went to a Honda dealer for an inspection, found a rust hole behind the heatshield of the muffler. (No way you could have seen it visually looking under the car) Attached pic.
5 - buyer calls, emails, and mails a registered letter in Nov 2021 and notifies of dealership's findings.
6 - seller in good faith, offer #1 compensate 500$ or take the car for 3500$ ( original sold price of 4000 - 500$) *written proof*
7- buyer refuses offer #1
8- seller makes offer #2: to reimburse for everything she spent up to now ( 4000$ + inspection + weathertech mats) *written proof*
9- buyer refuses offer #2
10- buyer proceeds to get a quote from a body shop for 2500$ and proceeds to go ahead regardless and ask seller to pay the bill.
11- buyer threatens legal action
12 - seller received letter from small claims court being sued for the repair bill claiming latent defect(vice caché)
Here’s what we found up to now
In the OPC website:
https://www.opc.gouv.qc.ca/en/consumer/good-service/vehicle/selling-individual/warranties/
“The Civil Code provides a warranty against hidden defects. This means that your vehicle’s buyer could have recourse against you if they discover a hidden defect after the purchase has been completed. A hidden defect is a problem that, had it been known before the purchase, would have prevented the buyer from purchasing the car or led them to negotiate the price downward. A hidden defect is present before the sale but cannot be detected by a buyer who carefully examines the car.
You can ask the buyer to renounce, in writing, the Civil Code warranty, but despite such an agreement, the buyer could have recourse against you if it can be proven that you had knowledge of a defect before you sold your vehicle.”
And in this case, the Civil Code warranty is referred to CCQ article 1726
http://www.legisquebec.gouv.qc.ca/en/version/cs/CCQ-1991?code=se:1726&history=20181002
“ 1726. The seller is bound to warrant the buyer that the property and its accessories are, at the time of the sale, free of latent defects which render it unfit for the use for which it was intended or which so diminish its usefulness that the buyer would not have bought it or paid so high a price if he had been aware of them.
The seller is not bound, however, to warrant against any latent defect known to the buyer or any apparent defect; an apparent defect is a defect that can be perceived by a prudent and diligent buyer without any need of expert assistance.”
now my questions:
did the buyer commit tax fraud? And is my friend, the seller, on the hook even though in section 3 of the PoA, it states:
I declare that I have sold my vehicle for the sum of $ ___ 1____ and my friend signed after
how well does this lawsuit stand? And what recourse does my friend have?
can he just reply to the lawsuit with all the emails in print of my friend trying to:
a. Compensate the buyer 500$ and refused
b. Cancel the sale and compensate her for all incurred cost( and still refused)
c. The buyer is dealing in bad faith and forcing my friend to keep the car and the money.
Thanks for the help guys.
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