Israel vs Hamas: Deadly Theater (Thread About the On Going WAR)

[alaayacouba]

Lots of people died in their cars ... Hammas attacking from the trunk of the car?

 

[EVOX09]

No I'd say it has more to do with BIBI Netenyahu's Re-Election prospects in January. An easy way to stay in power when your fucking up the economy is scare the shit out of your voters with a war and promise to be the only thing that stands between them and the apocalypse. It's a very simple tactic really. Also I believe Hamas and Israel need each other to a certain extent.

If Israel is fully at peace with its neighbors then no more need for those Juicy weapons contracts, or for the amazing amount of funding they give to their security services. Also I'm sure they will lose elegibility for financial aid from the American Gov't for the purpose of self defense. Also they will have to address the stagnating wages, youth unemployment and other social problems they currently brush aside with war. Not to mention Right wing people like Netenyahu will have a harder time getting elected since they will be judged on their policy and not their ability to wage war.


Now for Hamas, if they had peace with Israel then their platform of resistance and destroy Israel by any means necessary will be obsolete. They too will have the horrible problem of dealing with poverty and rebuilding billions of dollars of destroyed infrastructure. Not to mention a mass exodus of people who are fed up with living in a broken down place now that Palestine is a country and is no longer under threat of annexation. Hamas is a group of armed rebels and not a competent, educated gov't that can handle real people's problems.

TL;DR Both Hamas and the Israeli gov't are using this War for their own political purposes. In reality they have a much more dependent relationship with one another than the media would suggest.

Your political analysis does not make sense,

As a politician Netenyahu was heavily favoured in the polls before the conflict. Why would he take such a risky move when he is already ahead? This simply is not a good strategy, even for the worst of politicians. I dont agree with most of your analysis, but its a rational logical post and a good read

To put it simply, Netenyahu needs to step down, Hamas and the salafi groups need to go.

 

[dolomight 74-86]

Your political analysis does not make sense,

As a politician Netenyahu was heavily favoured in the polls before the conflict. Why would he take such a risky move when he is already ahead? This simply is not a good strategy, even for the worst of politicians. I dont agree with most of your analysis, but its a rational logical post and a good read

To put it simply, Netenyahu needs to step down, Hamas and the salafi groups need to go.

I believe the Israeli parlament is highly fragmented between like 4 political parties. BIBI has a coalition Gov't, lol not even a minority and in a parlament this is a really weak position. My reasoning is even if he is polling well he is by this move trying to improve the position of his political party as a whole to get control of the parlament. To help the other prospective members of his party down the ticket.

 

[EVOX09]

I believe the Israeli parlament is highly fragmented between like 4 political parties. BIBI has a coalition Gov't, lol not even a minority and in a parlament this is a really weak position. My reasoning is even if he is polling well he is by this move trying to improve the position of his political party as a whole to get control of the parlament. To help the other prospective members of his party down the ticket.

Definetely a valid theory and analysis. I'll agree to disagree with it though. Im still going to go with the "too risky" approach, if the rockets went unanswered he would have lost alot of his popularity. Fucked if you do, fucked if you dont situation imo.

 

[dooookie]

[video]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c15_1353317953[/video]

This is HAMAS new anthem.

 

[dolomight 74-86]

To put it simply, Netenyahu needs to step down, Hamas and the salafi groups need to go.

Nah Netenyahu going along with the Rebel groups on the Palestinian side wouldn't change much. There needs to be a final border agreement, a bilateral end of hostilities, along with a South Africa style truth and Reconsiliation process to help heal some of the wounds of old. I don't think it will happen anytime soon because there is too much money and influence on both sides in favor of keeping the feud going.

However one day who knows, maybe all the Butthurt in the Mid-east will ease and we will finally see peace.

 

[dolomight 74-86]

Definetely a valid theory and analysis. I'll agree to disagree with it though. Im still going to go with the "too risky" approach, if the rockets went unanswered he would have lost alot of his popularity. Fucked if you do, fucked if you dont situation imo.

Either way it will be a Net positive. In a couple of months when this shit dies down they'll all be like shit BIBI's a good guy. He blew our terrorist neighbors into the stone age.

 

[EVOX09]

In my opinion there cant be a solid border agreement until a peaceful party takes power. Abass is peaceful enough, but netenyahu is fucking that up royally. And Hamas wants to kill Abbass

 

[illuminance]

Who Is Benjamin Netanayhu?

 

[bertro]

In my opinion there cant be a solid border agreement until a peaceful party takes power.

...or Egypt takes over Gaza and pacifies it (by whatever means it chooses to do so).

I also think it would be in the best interest of peace if Israel let Jordan annex the west bank. As much as I support Israel, I believe they should shut down the settlements and gtfo of that dump as soon as possible.
Jerusalem should remain part of Israel of course.

Everyone could coexist if they just gave in a little and if the arabs would stop with this "Jews stole our land" bullshit. Jews are entitled to live there as much as arabs are.

 

[Fuzz]

You know, I don't post much these days. I stick to myself, I don't open my mouth, but after seeing all these photos, and reading more into the situation I think I can clearly state that the entire conflict in that region is down to property rights.

Lets be perfectly honest, when you read into all the history books Jerusalem is the single largest 'holy' place on the planet. It is the home of more religious believes that any others. Due to this, and due to the whole 'my god is better than your god' stance that many religious fanatics take, I can safely come to terms with the fact that this is the largest and bloodiest battle over 'property'.

There is nothing wrong with having faith, or indulging with culture or religion. History is who we were, not who we are. In 2012, not a single person should die because of what happened thousands of years ago.

I think I've come up with a brilliant solution. Some will say I'm stupid, or insensitive; but I say that all this killing that is happening today is stupid and insensitive.

Nobody needs to die, nobody needs to get hurt, but something is seriously wrong with the region and it needs to be corrected. Mum always told me that if I can't share, I can't have. She would snatch the toys away.

I think it is time that the U.N. or some other international committee comes in and takes away the religious 'ace in the hole'... Jerusalem.

Get rid of it. I don't care how. I don't care if you bring in a bunch of bulldozers, or carpet bomb it from the air. Evacuate the area, and just turn it to dust.

Once the dust has settled, and the fighting stops... you build the worlds largest community center. A facility that is designed to help enlighten people, with knowledge and spiritually, no mater what their religion is. Call it the Disney World of faith.

Let the flaming begin.

 

[skylox]

No, im not surprised. They also allowed Pakistan and Saudi Arabia on the Human and Women's rights boards.. Palestine Needs to be Recognized, Israel Needs to stop Settlements in the west bank. Hamas needs to step down and Israel needs a less aggressive Prime Minister.

I would not trust the UN to run a Lemonade stand without people dying.

i am impressed and completly agree with that

 

[skylox]

So what your saying is that the lack of advanced weaponry gives Hamas the right to use human shields. I didnt think you could top the Statement.

But...

You just did.

no not exactly , more like . israel would fight amongst the population if roles were reversed . hamas being evil , does what it can to make israel look as bad as possible . let me make it a lil clearer . do you for 1 second think that if hamas was armed like israel is and israel had what hamas has , they would hesitate to storm israel and kill every1 ? i think it would happen faster then u can blink , guess what , that equals no hinding

oh and 1 more thing ,think about all the crazy muzzy's that lost their family who were normally peaceful . probably not gonna be to hard to get them to join up now huh

 

[raphy_rogers]

How can the occupied be ever be perceived as evil, shit imagine The British come back here along with the french and occupy our lands because they have a 3 hundred year claim and take away everything from us and put us in ghettos while cutting us off from the rest of the world. Would we be evil to wanna fight at at cost? Would you say it was their land and it's rightfully theirs? You look at the whiteness of most Israelis, can't really say their heritage is from that region, it's not realistic. This is just given to them because of their "religion" which they might have converted too a generation or two ago. Realistically most Jews converted to Christianity or Islam some hundreds of years ago. Odds are some of the ones dying now come from such heritages.

Can't really blame them (Hamas) for being racist and hateful (And I say this an non biased not muslim or Jewish person) since the people they hate are as racist as them. Can't always forgive your enemies.

 

[alaayacouba]

^ thank u

 

[EVOX09]

no not exactly , more like . israel would fight amongst the population if roles were reversed . hamas being evil , does what it can to make israel look as bad as possible . let me make it a lil clearer . do you for 1 second think that if hamas was armed like israel is and israel had what hamas has , they would hesitate to storm israel and kill every1 ? i think it would happen faster then u can blink , guess what , that equals no hinding

oh and 1 more thing ,think about all the crazy muzzy's that lost their family who were normally peaceful . probably not gonna be to hard to get them to join up now huh

Alot of them blame Hamas, most actually, because they know how they are they live with them. Read about hamas, watch their television, i do.

And i dont agree with your reversal claim. There is no evidence to support it. And if you care about palestinians, like most here claim to, in no way shape or form should you be condoning or justifying the usage of human shields. It is NEVER necessary. Especially deliberately drawing fire into civilian zones to use the population as a political tool. Which Hamas brag about on their television networks for years now. Gaza has more rural land than urban land, and 75% of the population is in the urban sector. Most of the rest, spread out in refugee camps.

If Hamas was armed like Israel and the situation were reveresed. They would carry out their charter. Which demands the death of all jews and an islamic republic that will eventually expand into europe. But they wouldn't get very far before their arab neighbours attack them.. Sandro posted an interesting video monday morning, you should watch it.

 

[EVOX09]

^ thank u

How can the occupied be ever be perceived as evil, shit imagine The British come back here along with the french and occupy our lands because they have a 3 hundred year claim and take away everything from us and put us in ghettos while cutting us off from the rest of the world. Would we be evil to wanna fight at at cost? Would you say it was their land and it's rightfully theirs? You look at the whiteness of most Israelis, can't really say their heritage is from that region, it's not realistic. This is just given to them because of their "religion" which they might have converted too a generation or two ago. Realistically most Jews converted to Christianity or Islam some hundreds of years ago. Odds are some of the ones dying now come from such heritages.

Can't really blame them (Hamas) for being racist and hateful (And I say this an non biased not muslim or Jewish person) since the people they hate are as racist as them. Can't always forgive your enemies.

You should go over the first 12 pages with alaayacouba and attempt to explain to me how Hamas does not opress palestinians. Or maybe attempt to justify Hamas as a government.

 

[EVOX09]

i am impressed and completly agree with that

I believed this all along, but its hard to get it out there when so many ignorant people are dedicated to spreading their inbred ignorance. People tend to lose sight of the real problem and solution and focus on the bullshit. And phony lies that can be easily disproved.

 

[EVOX09]

Update: Egypt’s president sees end to Gaza conflict on Tuesday

Efforts to produce ‘truce between the Palestinian and Israeli sides will produce positive results,’ Mursi says

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news...lict+Tuesday/7575238/story.html#ixzz2Cm5qiQIy

CAIRO - Egyptian President Mohamed Mursi said on Tuesday that “Israeli aggression” against Gaza would end later in the day, the Egyptian state news agency MENA reported.

“President Mohamed Mursi announced that the farce of Israeli aggression against the Gaza Strip will end on Tuesday,” MENA said, quoting public remarks made by the country’s head of state after the funeral of his sister.

“The efforts to conclude a truce between the Palestinian and Israeli sides will produce positive results in the next few hours,” he was quoted as saying. Egypt has been trying to mediate a truce to end the conflict.

Mursi was speaking in Zagazig, a town north of Cairo in the Nile Delta. The MENA story did not provide a direct quote.

Egyptian Prime Minister Hisham Kandil told Reuters on Monday a ceasefire could be close.

Meanwhile, the UN’s human rights chief pressed Israel on Tuesday to avoid strikes on civilian structures in Gaza, and UNICEF said children in the enclave were showing signs of severe trauma after direct hits on dwellings that have killed dozens of civilians.

The International Committee of the Red Cross also reminded both parties - Israel and the Islamist Hamas movement - to the week-old conflict of their obligation to comply with humanitarian law to minimize civilian casualties.

A rocket was fired at Jerusalem on Tuesday, missing the holy city and landing in the near-by West Bank, police said, adding that there were no casualties or damage.

Islamist militant group Hamas said it had fired the missile out of the Gaza Strip in response to continued Israeli airstrikes on the Palestinian territory.

It was the second time a rocket has been launched toward Jerusalem since Israel’s Gaza offensive began last Wednesday, with sirens sounding around the city, sending pedestrians running for cover.

“The rocket landed in the West Bank. No damage or casualties,” a police spokesman said, adding that it was one of 95 rockets launched into Israel on Wednesday. Thirty of them were intercepted by the Iron Dome system.

At least 57 Palestinian civilians, including 18 children, are confirmed as having been killed in the conflict so far, according to United Nations monitors who say the death toll had doubled in the past 48 hours. Ten more people were killed overnight but it was unclear how many were civilians, UN rights spokesman Rupert Colville said.

“The High Commissioner therefore calls on Israel to scrupulously meet its legal obligations to distinguish at all times between civilians and combatants and take precautions and all possible measures to avoid the loss of civilian life and damage to civilian property,” Colville told a news briefing.

About 31 residences in Gaza and two buildings used by media have been hit by Israeli missiles so far, and hundreds of people have been injured, he said.

Dozens of schools and religious sites in Gaza are reported to have been damaged by Israel’s aerial bombing campaign, which followed weeks of increasing Hamas rocket fire into Israel.

“As to whether these would be war crimes, that would depend very much on the circumstances of each individual episode as to whether there was a valid (military) target nearby or not, but that’s a very complex issue,” Colville said.


He said Navi Pillay, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights and an ex-UN war crimes judge, felt it was necessary to ensure accountability for any violation of international law, including through independent investigations.

“Partners in Gaza tell UNICEF that children are increasingly showing signs of severe psycho-social distress. This includes an inability to sleep, being afraid to go out in public, clinging to parents, bedwetting, nightmares and withdrawal,” UNICEF spokeswoman Marixie Mercado told reporters in Geneva.

AVOIDING CIVILIAN CASUALTIES

Under international law, all sides are obliged to abide by three principles governing the rules of war. These include a need to distinguish between combatants and civilians and taking all possible precautions to avoid civilian casualties.

“The Israelis are saying that’s what they are doing and yet there are a lot of civilian casualties taking place. So that needs further examination as to whether the principle of precaution is being properly followed,” Colville said.

Proportionality means refraining from launching an attack when it is expected to cause excessive loss of civilian life in relation to the anticipated military advantage, he said.

Israel says it takes great care to avoid civilian casualties and accuses Hamas and other militant groups of deliberately putting Gaza’s 1.7 million people in harm’s way by placing rocket launchers among them.

Pillay also condemned “the continuing indiscriminate attacks and targeting of civilians in Israel by militants from Gaza” whose rockets have killed three Israeli civilians, injured others and damaged civilian property, Colville said.

Earlier on Tuesday, UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon called for an immediate ceasefire in the Gaza Strip and U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton headed to the region with a message that escalation of the week-long conflict was in nobody’s interest.

The ICRC said it was in regular contact with Israeli and Palestinian authorities, reminding them of their legal obligations “regarding means and methods of warfare.”

But mounting casualty figures are making the situation difficult for Gaza’s main hospitals and it is hard to maintain deliveries of medicines and medical materials, it said.

Thats good news.

 

[skylox]

Alot of them blame Hamas, most actually, because they know how they are they live with them. Read about hamas, watch their television, i do.

And i dont agree with your reversal claim. There is no evidence to support it. And if you care about palestinians, like most here claim to, in no way shape or form should you be condoning or justifying the usage of human shields. It is NEVER necessary. Especially deliberately drawing fire into civilian zones to use the population as a political tool. Which Hamas brag about on their television networks for years now. Gaza has more rural land than urban land, and 75% of the population is in the urban sector. Most of the rest, spread out in refugee camps.

If Hamas was armed like Israel and the situation were reveresed. They would carry out their charter. Which demands the death of all jews and an islamic republic that will eventually expand into europe. But they wouldn't get very far before their arab neighbours attack them.. Sandro posted an interesting video monday morning, you should watch it.

i dont condone anyhing just stating the reason i think is behind what they do . also , forget the rest of the world for a sec , there is only israel palestinians and hamas , roles are reversed what happenes ?