Help me overcome my plateau!

I hate to say it but i am in a serious rut here.

I started training in June 2007 with only basic knowledge of weight lifting. I am one of those people who can eat all they want and not gain a pound. I would say that my bones are average size. When i started training i was 6' and 165lbs. Today I'm 180 lbs.

From day one i have been working on a four day split that often changed. I typically keep my repetitions between 8-12. I haven't seen a change in the weight i'm lifting for a while now. For the past 3 months i have been experimenting with drop sets.

As far as diet goes, i was sticking to 6 meals a day (2 of which were weight gaining protein shakes). For the past 2 months i have only been taking one regular protein shake on my days off and two on training days along with 3 large meals. I steered away from gaining supplements for one simple reason. After taking them for so long my body was accustomed to consuming so much per day. Once your metabolism rises like that, you're not exactly going beyond your limits anymore...

All in all, i know i will never be beastly! I'd like to gain another 15 lbs of lean muscle mass. I just need some opinions. Should i look into supersets? How can i lift more weight? What to do about my diet? etc

thanks in advance!

It's complicated, but basically work with negative sets and when you lift normally do 5-6 reps max and lift heavy.

In case you don't know, negative sets are when you put 10-15% more weight than your maximum weight, and you have someone help youlift, and all you do is slow down the fall.

Eat protein protein protein protein all day long lol

^ i was actually thinking about doing that...

Let me see if i understand correctly:

1) First of all, negatives mean slowing down while exerting force on the muscle ie. downwards on bench press, upwards on bicep curl. Right?

2) The reason i would begin to experiment with negatives (a form oif power lifting) is to build strength in the short run and mass in the long run. I won't build too much mass while doing these negatives but i will certainly become stronger and i can apply that heavy weight to sets of 8-12 reps later on. Right?

Negative sets is when the muscle lengthens.

You haven't explained much about your routine.

If you're doing your legs once a week, you should look into doing that two or three times a week while reducing the workload for each workout( 2 warmups + 3-5 sets of squats, 3-5 sets of leg curls, all depending on your load, should be plenty)

Also, maybe you've reached a point were you need to change your routine entirely, here's something that I've found to be beneficial in those times:
http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm

As for negatives and whatnots, I find most people doing them are already overtraining and just putting themselves in a worst situation

vince_badaz said:

You haven't explained much about your routine.

If you're doing your legs once a week, you should look into doing that two or three times a week while reducing the workload for each workout( 2 warmups + 3-5 sets of squats, 3-5 sets of leg curls, all depending on your load, should be plenty)

Also, maybe you've reached a point were you need to change your routine entirely, here's something that I've found to be beneficial in those times:
http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm

As for negatives and whatnots, I find most people doing them are already overtraining and just putting themselves in a worst situation

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That doesn't sound at all right to me...

Muscle growth occurs while your muscles repair themselves. That's exactly why you want to space out your leg workouts for example. It's also why heavy lifters need that much protein-because it helps your muscles repair themselves.

Your hypothesis would be a great workout plan if you want to improve muscular endurance. It also won't help you get out of a plateau...

adam do you ever take a break from the gym like a few weeks off ...i fine i do that twice a year or every 3 months approx and it really helps!

and i found you really have to try many workouts to see what works and what doesn't took me a year to find the right combos along with the right gainer etc and now im actually seeing a difference!!

REDLINE_76 said:

That doesn't sound at all right to me...

Muscle growth occurs while your muscles repair themselves. That's exactly why you want to space out your leg workouts for example. It's also why heavy lifters need that much protein-because it helps your muscles repair themselves.

Your hypothesis would be a great workout plan if you want to improve muscular endurance. It also won't help you get out of a plateau...

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muscular endurance? not with sets of 5 reps
5 reps is a good compromise in stressing the CNS and muscles.
Muscle growth occurs when you stress your muscles, thats it thats all.
Do you think olympic weight lifters train their legs once a week? More like 6 times a week. And these guys are the most explosive athletes all sports combined (you've read right)

As I've said, 3x5 of squats + 3x10 of leg curls can be done 3x a week EASY

check also: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=998224

Plus, you get the added benefits of getting your most important muscles (legs) working 3 times more than usual = more gain in ALL your lifts...

I was sceptical also, until I tried it and got good results from a similar workout

That still doesn't sound right to me...I haven't been reading up as much as usual but i can say with confidence that that goes against what they say in Muscle and Fitness magazine. I'm also NOT an olympic weight lifter nor can i manage a 6 day split.

Any other ideas???

RichyRich514 said:

adam do you ever take a break from the gym like a few weeks off ...i fine i do that twice a year or every 3 months approx and it really helps!

and i found you really have to try many workouts to see what works and what doesn't took me a year to find the right combos along with the right gainer etc and now im actually seeing a difference!!

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I think you're onto something Richy! One of the big principles of weight lifting is to shake things up constantly. I have tested many different types of routines. I change it up every 3 months like yourself *tu*

Post you EXACT diet.

Most ectomorphs who claim that they eat tons of food but fail to gain weight find that, once they get precise with their nutrition and actually add up all the calories, they're not really eating that much.

If your goals are strength and size, then diet is more than half the battle.

Throw in some squats, deadlifts, heavy presses and chins and you should be good to go.

REDLINE_76 said:

That still doesn't sound right to me...I haven't been reading up as much as usual but i can say with confidence that that goes against what they say in Muscle and Fitness magazine. I'm also NOT an olympic weight lifter nor can i manage a 6 day split.

Any other ideas???

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It's 3 times a week, like your current workout

If you're looking for an interesting read for different ideas, I wasn't convinced at first either but results speak for themselves:
http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/table_of_contents_thread.htm
http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/Topics/Training_Primer.htm

As mentioned, post your diet to give a better idea. You should be eating somewhere around 3k calories a day with something like 130-160g of protein

Also as mentioned, you might have reach a point of fatigue were rest/unloading would prove more beneficial than lifting weights at the same intensity as your are now

As far as my diet goes, i try to keep it relatively simple because we all know that it's very difficult to whip up specific meals when you're on the run and such. Although i'm no longer taking weight gaining formulas, i consume plenty of protein and throw in shakes to help me reach 180g/day (1g protein/1lb of body weight). I load up on both starchy and fibrous carbs; mostly starchy. I actually try to stay away from foods that are high in fat because i still want to maintain a good physique and health

For a while now i have been working around a 4 day split per week:
Day 1: Chest and shoulders
Day 2: Legs (abs)
Day 3: Biceps and triceps
Day 4: Back (abs)

I honestly never do the same thing for every day. I try to shake it up every workout! I never do the same exercises in the same order on a back day for example. Normally I stick to 8-12 reps but depending on how i feel I will sometimes cut down the reps for strength or bring them up for endurance. From my understanding, you build different muscle fibers this way which leads to muscle growth and nicer shape.

forgot to mention that i normally eat something in the neighborhood of 3000-4000 calories per day *tu*

pro's say you should do back/biceps one day then chest/triceps another

i tried that out for a bit. It's definately a popular split...mine is a twist on one i saw in Muscle and Fitness

I eat 6000+ cals

eggs, bread, chicken, cheese, milk, protein shakes, 4 weight-gainer shakes per day,

etc etc...
do not forget veges!