LOL c'est drole qu'a chiale et a conduit une GTI... je trouve quil y a pas une char manuel plus facile a conduire que ca... j'ai appris a ma blonde a conduire manuel avec ma jetta... et ca a pas pris plus que 5 minute... pour le smoothness ca vien avec l'experience biensur.
My summer is a twin clutch and my winter/trip car is an automatic. Up until these two cars, I've only owned manuals, and honestly, meh. It's really not as big a deal as the hardcore manual guys make it out to be.
I do admit that sometimes my right hand still looks for something to do, so half the time I end up grabbing my girlfriend's titties for no reason.
And how about you put a driver from the turbo era F1 into a modern F1 car, do you think he wouldn't struggle? F1 cars today are insanely complex and if you think it's just raw talent that makes a team successfully you just don't know how racing works... What you are saying is insulting to drivers and motorsports, the gearbox is just another part of motorsports and not the definition of it.
I don't think this particular scenario is in favor of manual being better, if you had an automatic you would have been able to drink more beer that night.
Of course if you take one of those drivers now they'd barely hold together a proper lap, they're all retired and way out of shape if not dead lol I still stand by what I said. Do you REALLY think a Max Chilton or a Giedo van der Garde or an Esteban Gutierrez could match the likes of Nelson Piquet or Nigel Mansell, Alain Prost or Ayrton Senna? Regardless of the differences in cars, driving the old cars were way more difficult and part of that was taking your damn hand off the wheel and manually using the clutch to change gears. The only thing I see complex about the new cars is memorizing the steering wheel and all the weird starting procedures. Don't believe me, watch this vid, and it comes from a high caliber and very talented driver and he even proves my point at 6:30
I don't get why you think I'm saying that it's only a driver's raw talent that makes a team successful, please FIND where I wrote that. All of what else you wrote is just putting words in my mouth. What I'm trying to get at in the whole is that nowadays it really isn't the same anymore, driving a race car at speed is an art and watching those guys in sports car racing from back then and other forms of motorsport working the shifter and clutch was real cool to see and it was more difficult than today. I do know very well that racing isn't easy in the least bit today either, I know it's very physical to drive most of these cars at speed and you need to be in very good shape both physically and mentally, I know, I've been racing and involved in motorsports for the last 8 years. The only reason why all these cars are going to auto or paddle shifts and all that bullshit is because it's only technologically and mechanically better and faster, and faster is the most important in racing. Hell, if engineers could have their way, they'd probably eliminate the driver while they're at it lol you gotta be at one with the car and driving manual is that much closer to being one with it, and nothing will change my view on that
My cousin for one and other relatives mostly have manual cars and they only use their cars for A to B stuff, none of them are into cars at all. But they all rather manual. But hey, what do I know...
Whatever, just what I believe, in racing it should still be manual, keep it as pure as possible, that way you can match the drivers on their skill more instead of all this engineering and technology bullshit that's taking over. Just one more thing to keep it more pure would be to keep it manual. In my view racing should be driver vs driver, not the majority of it being the car doing everything for you.
Doesn't this seem a lot more challenging, which equals to fun to try and master and get the best driving experience? I would take this any day over a paddle shift.
In everyday life with everyday people, I guess it really does come down to personal preference, but if you like cars and enjoy driving, wouldn't you want to interact more with your car than let a stupid computer do it all for you?
Yet another fine example of how more involving and interesting it all is. I would bet anything a good number of rally drivers today wouldn't be able to keep up with him in the same car based only on the fact it's a real manual.
Actually modern rally cars are faster over a stage these days over the group b cars of the 80s FYI. Also Audi had developed "PDK" gearbox in the 80s for the S1 E2... the clutch was only used for starting and stopping...
Race teams don't care about "driving pleasure" or "Ye olde yesterdays technology" it's all about shaving time and making the car as fast as possible. Many racecars still use sequential gear boxs that still use a clutch but you can still upshift/downshift without a clutch thanks to a flat shift setup that cuts the ignition. http://www.holinger.com.au/ or MTI
Actually modern rally cars are faster over a stage these days over the group b cars of the 80s FYI. Also Audi had developed "PDK" gearbox in the 80s for the S1 E2... the clutch was only used for starting and stopping...
Race teams don't care about "driving pleasure" or "Ye olde yesterdays technology" it's all about shaving time and making the car as fast as possible. Many racecars still use sequential gear boxs that still use a clutch but you can still upshift/downshift without a clutch thanks to a flat shift setup that cuts the ignition. http://www.holinger.com.au/ or MTI
I agree with you 100%, it's just a shame cuz it takes a bit away from what makes it a sport. The sport of racing is driving the car at the limit and strategies, whether on pit stops or in battles on track. I hate to see teams win because their computer shifts faster than another or something in that sense, if you can understand what I'm trying to get at. I'm ok with sequentials, a lot of drivers still heel-toe on downshifts to be easier on the car.
This video screams "fuck PDK" all over it, you can still be fast as fuck, pretty much to a point where the difference in a lap time won't really be determined in gear shifts:
Yes I do enjoy that video... however a big point that you also forgot about was driver fatigue over the course of a race... try shifting like that for 2-3 hours. Back in the day endurance racing was "endurance racing" because the driver would be exhausted a race or stint. Now they get out and are relaxed.
If anything technology has made racing super reliable mechanically and physically.
Whatever, just what I believe, in racing it should still be manual, keep it as pure as possible, that way you can match the drivers on their skill more instead of all this engineering and technology bullshit that's taking over. Just one more thing to keep it more pure would be to keep it manual. In my view racing should be driver vs driver, not the majority of it being the car doing everything for you.
Doesn't this seem a lot more challenging, which equals to fun to try and master and get the best driving experience? I would take this any day over a paddle shift.
In everyday life with everyday people, I guess it really does come down to personal preference, but if you like cars and enjoy driving, wouldn't you want to interact more with your car than let a stupid computer do it all for you?
Technology bullshit ?!? Most people don't understand it and that's why they fear it. Look, the car ALWAYS makes the difference, even in spec racing. The setup, the engineers and the mechanics make the difference. A good driver will sure make a slow car faster, but never competitive. An average driver with a well sorted car will run up front though !
I agree with you 100%, it's just a shame cuz it takes a bit away from what makes it a sport. The sport of racing is driving the car at the limit and strategies, whether on pit stops or in battles on track. I hate to see teams win because their computer shifts faster than another or something in that sense, if you can understand what I'm trying to get at. I'm ok with sequentials, a lot of drivers still heel-toe on downshifts to be easier on the car.
Technology bullshit ?!? Most people don't understand it and that's why they fear it. Look, the car ALWAYS makes the difference, even in spec racing. The setup, the engineers and the mechanics make the difference. A good driver will sure make a slow car faster, but never competitive. An average driver with a well sorted car will run up front though !
Personally I don't fear all this new technology making driving the cars easier and whatnot, I just plain dislike it. And for sure even in spec racing nothing's perfectly equal, comes down to setups like you said and sometimes you just have a lemon of an engine like what has happened to me in the past. You live with it. I've seen more than a fair share of very average caliber drivers running up front because of good equipment and what teams they're running with.
DSG to me is too automatic at that point, takes 0 skill. Biggest turn off: 2 pedals instead of 3. Less fun.
Back in 1912 Cadillac first introduced the self cranking motor. Gone were the days you needed manly strength and skill to get your car started. I wonder with how many automotive enthusiasts met with it disdain? Fast forward 100 years where turning a key or pressing a button to start your car is not even second thought. Now a number of manufacturers have a decent automated manual transmission solution and people are crying "oh the humanity, God save the manuals"..... for what? So you can pride yourself on how your able to push down the clutch and brake while blipping the throttle with your heel as you move a stick into a different position and match the revs perfectly.
I'm sorry, I respect the fact that you're nostalgic about it and probably want to keep driving manual for yourself but please don't bitch and complain that the next generation doesn't give a shit about an outdated method of shifting gears.
IMO cars in the next 30 years should all move to just a DSG type transmission. No Automatics and no 3rd pedal, just a system that lets you control what gear your in when you want to with an auto mode when you're stuck in traffic. By then most people stuck in their manual ways will be too old to drive and the then current driver won't care their grandfathers and GGFs shifted manually just like we don't care ours cranked their engines manually.
It's evolution. While the new generation pushes the bounds of what's possible, the previous generation holds them back partially because they're stuck in their way, partially because they become outdated in the shift forward.
Yeah it's true what you're saying, makes perfect sense. I'll always stick to manual as much as I can while others can do what they want. What really bothered me was what many "millenials" complain about in manual driving from the original topic in this conversation and their annoying remarks and unwillingness to learn such a simple thing, and calling everything outdated and wants their cars to drive themselves and do their taxes for them while they're updating their Facebook status and sipping their latte lol anyway it's a useless thing to debate about really, I just needed to vent a little I guess haha
Personally I don't fear all this new technology making driving the cars easier and whatnot, I just plain dislike it. And for sure even in spec racing nothing's perfectly equal, comes down to setups like you said and sometimes you just have a lemon of an engine like what has happened to me in the past. You live with it. I've seen more than a fair share of very average caliber drivers running up front because of good equipment and what teams they're running with.
DSG to me is too automatic at that point, takes 0 skill. Biggest turn off: 2 pedals instead of 3. Less fun.
In everyday life with everyday people, I guess it really does come down to personal preference, but if you like cars and enjoy driving, wouldn't you want to interact more with your car than let a stupid computer do it all for you?
why in hell do you need to feel like you have to interact with the car more than you do with an automatic car in daily driving? are you racing someone? do you often feel like you could lose control of you car?
what kind of fun are you looking for in everyday driving with full of speed limits, cars, stop signs and traffic lights? pushing clutch pedal and shift gear means that much fun to you?
Yeah it's true what you're saying, makes perfect sense. I'll always stick to manual as much as I can while others can do what they want. What really bothered me was what many "millenials" complain about in manual driving from the original topic in this conversation and their annoying remarks and unwillingness to learn such a simple thing, and calling everything outdated and wants their cars to drive themselves and do their taxes for them while they're updating their Facebook status and sipping their latte lol anyway it's a useless thing to debate about really, I just needed to vent a little I guess haha
In return what's not stated in my post is exactly what you pointed out
1) I hate distracted drivers, period, full stop. Whatever it is doing the distracting, whatever transmission, when you're a potential 2000 pound wrecking ball it deserves your full attention... take the bus/train or car pool if you want to do something else on the way.
2) Not learning it because it's "outdated" or "complicated" is bullshit. Manual is still here whether they like it or not and I agree with you that they should be smacked upside the head for not at least knowing how to drive manual in case of emergency.
why in hell do you need to feel like you have to interact with the car more than you do with an automatic car in daily driving? are you racing someone? do you often feel like you could lose control of you car?
what kind of fun are you looking for in everyday driving with full of speed limits, cars, stop signs and traffic lights? pushing clutch pedal and shift gear means that much fun to you?
I just really enjoy driving a car, no matter the conditions or whatever. Even in daily driving I like shifting, I'm almost robotic in a car and it probably comes from my karting background since I started racing them way before I got my license. So now no matter what I'm driving and where, it's as if I'm "racing" it even though I'm driving normal. This vid I recorded last year kinda shows that, I dunno, it's just the way I am
I just really enjoy driving a car, no matter the conditions or whatever. Even in daily driving I like shifting, I'm almost robotic in a car and it probably comes from my karting background since I started racing them way before I got my license. So now no matter what I'm driving and where, it's as if I'm "racing" it even though I'm driving normal. This vid I recorded last year kinda shows that, I dunno, it's just the way I am
enjoying driving does not mean you have to drive manual. you sure know this especially that you now mention about karting which has nothing to do with manual tranny.
and you still haven't answered why sequentials are ok for you and dsg isn't.
my guess is that you don't really know what you are babbling in your posts.
