BMW M Boss Says High-Powered Automatics Will Even Kill Dual-Clutch Gearboxes

driftking88 said:
Chauffer auto dans un daily après avoir passer la.journee à shifter des 10-13-18 vitesse sa me dérange pas

Envoyé de mon Nexus 6 en utilisant Tapatalk
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Moi exactement l'inverse. Retrouver mon stick shift me fait le plus grand plaisir après une journée à tourner le volant dune van sans rien faire d'autre.
 
g-ng said:
manual = driver involvement =/= better or faster
And everyone who argues that manuals are better bring up some old video or some old car from the 90's
fact is new automatics are fast af, reliable, efficient.

look at the list of cars that share any variation of the ZF 8HP:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_8HP_transmission

Maybe in 1993 when you had either a Getrag 6MT vs a 4speed auto, sure it was better. Welcome to 2017.
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How can you tell, DSG and 73643374436 speed slushbox are not used since a very long time. 3-4speed slushbox already cost a lot more to rebuild than 5-6speed manual, imagine now with 8-9 even 10 speed automatic trans, they will cost an arm and a leg.

Take for exemple a proven Aisin manual transmission, you can probably neglect it all it's life, never change the oil, run it low on oil in high temperature and it will probably outlive the car. The only place an automatic is better IMO is in deep water crossing, automotive dry clutch don't like water and you can't clutch in if your transmission is under water.
lots of modern automatic don't even have a dipstick, like how the fuck i'm suppose to check if low on fluid or to smell it to see if there is a burn smell, stupid "dealer only" bullcrap.
 
22REpower said:
How can you tell, DSG and 73643374436 speed slushbox are not used since a very long time. 3-4speed slushbox already cost a lot more to rebuild than 5-6speed manual, imagine now with 8-9 even 10 speed automatic trans, they will cost an arm and a leg.

Take for exemple a proven Aisin manual transmission, you can probably neglect it all it's life, never change the oil, run it low on oil in high temperature and it will probably outlive the car. The only place an automatic is better IMO is in deep water crossing, automotive dry clutch don't like water and you can't clutch in if your transmission is under water.
lots of modern automatic don't even have a dipstick, like how the fuck i'm suppose to check if low on fluid or to smell it to see if there is a burn smell, stupid "dealer only" bullcrap.
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The reason they don't have dipsticks is mainly because they don't want DIY people or ghetto ass shops messing around with adding the wrong fluid while still under warranty. ZF gear boxes haven't had sticks in years, yet you can still dump the oil and add. You just need to do it from under. With modern fluids you don't have to touch the trans for 130-160k anyways. What I am seeing though is that manufactures are going back to having a fucking real engine oil dipstick, about damn time.
 
Gregster said:
The reason they don't have dipsticks is mainly because they don't want DIY people or ghetto ass shops messing around with adding the wrong fluid while still under warranty. ZF gear boxes haven't had sticks in years, yet you can still dump the oil and add. You just need to do it from under. With modern fluids you don't have to touch the trans for 130-160k anyways. What I am seeing though is that manufactures are going back to having a fucking real engine oil dipstick, about damn time.
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Dumping the oil i understand it's done by under the car, removing the pan, changing transmission filter and pan gasket, but adding fluid on a automatic by under i never done it. Is there a checkhole like a manual transmission, how can you tell it's full ? I am genuily asking, i never know when it's going to serve me but last time i sit in a automatic car for a roadtrip the transmission blows up in boucherville.
 
g-ng said:
manual = driver involvement =/= better or faster
And everyone who argues that manuals are better bring up some old video or some old car from the 90's
fact is new automatics are fast af, reliable, efficient.

look at the list of cars that share any variation of the ZF 8HP:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_8HP_transmission

Maybe in 1993 when you had either a Getrag 6MT vs a 4speed auto, sure it was better. Welcome to 2017.
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I don't think anyone is arguing that today's autos are less efficient, quick, or even reliable than manuals. It's all about the fun factor, for most anyway.

If your idea of fun is speed, acceleration and track times, look no further; autos have already taken that spot on the podium. But for many, driver involvement has more weight than all of those combined.

If motorcycles were full autos, they would suck. Glad they're keeping a mostly generalized foot-operated sequential.
 
Tout mes voitures dans le passe ont été manuelle et j'ai toujours juré que par ca. Auhourd'hui j'ai une dsg et homy fuck que j'aime ca !
 
These days "driver involvement" is a term that really means "driver superiority complex" imo. If they stopped looking down on other people, manual transmission will certainly give much less the so called "feelings" to the drivers. So in summary this feeling is more a feeling of smugness.
 
^^^ omg lol
so if there's wasn't a soul left on the earth and you could drive anything in the world with no one to talk to about your driving experience, what would it be...
 
Snail said:
^^^ omg lol
so if there's wasn't a soul left on the earth and you could drive anything in the world with no one to talk to about your driving experience, what would it be...
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I'd get into the fastest manual car I could find and throw myself off a cliff ..... might as well end the suffering of being alone the right way....
 
Lol having no one around would mean I will have access to many different cars, which is awesome. Then I'd be able change my car every day.

Point is, I don't like to confine my choices. I don't have a favourite type of transmission just like I don't have a favourite movie. But to be fair, I would be sad if no manual cars were being manufactured in the future.
 
BetaPro said:
Lol having no one around would mean I will have access to many different cars, which is awesome. Then I'd be able change my car every day.

Point is, I don't like to confine my choices. I don't have a favourite type of transmission just like I don't have a favourite movie. But to be fair, I would be sad if no manual cars were being manufactured in the future.
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Exactly. Except I do have a "preferred transmission choice" and that'll always be the one with 3 pedals. End of point. :laugh:
 
For people driving daily in heavy traffic the dual clutch auto is the worse to have, every time you're inching forward it slips, the more you drive it in heavy traffic the closer you get it to fail prematurely.
 
CRNKY said:
For people driving daily in heavy traffic the dual clutch auto is the worse to have, every time you're inching forward it slips, the more you drive it in heavy traffic the closer you get it to fail prematurely.
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I drove some heavy trucks with dual clutch auto ( meritor 12 speed ) and it's 10x time worse than on cars, the system is so slow to release the clutch you need to do 2 feet driving on any kind of incline if you don't want to back up in a possible car behind.
It has a manual mode that works when he wants to, lots of time you downshift and the computer is like " no not this time " even tho the engine would not be in over rev.

Whats the point of an automatic truck if you have to do 2 feet driving anyway. Also the company did not want us to use the automatic mode because it use more fuel since the computer is retarded and the manual mode works like complete crap.
Slushbox heavy trucks work ok but they drink 20-30% more fuel than normal manual one, at least the 2014 i drove at my last job.

The only car i drove with a dual clutch is a ford fiesta, no manual mode only L and D, sometime the car rollback on an incline sometimes it don't and will roll foward like a normal slushbox, kinda weird. that might be a bad exemple since fiesta/focus dualclutch are the worse you can find i think, the clutch shutter on startup like a beaten shitbox and the car only has 130 000km.
 
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22REpower said:
I drove some heavy trucks with dual clutch auto ( meritor 12 speed ) and it's 10x time worse than on cars, the system is so slow to release the clutch you need to do 2 feet driving on any kind of incline if you don't want to back up in a possible car behind.
It has a manual mode that works when he wants to, lots of time you downshift and the computer is like " no not this time " even tho the engine would not be in over rev.

Whats the point of an automatic truck if you have to do 2 feet driving anyway. Also the company did not want us to use the automatic mode because it use more fuel since the computer is retarded and the manual mode works like complete crap.
Slushbox heavy trucks work ok but they drink 20-30% more fuel than normal manual one, at least the 2014 i drove at my last job.

The only car i drove with a dual clutch is a ford fiesta, no manual mode only L and D, sometime the car rollback on an incline sometimes it don't and will roll foward like a normal slushbox, kinda weird. that might be a bad exemple since fiesta/focus dualclutch are the worse you can find i think, the clutch shutter on startup like a beaten shitbox and the car only has 130 000km.
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a ma job on a une 10aines de t800 avec un allison auto, sa va super bien tu lache le brake le truck commence a avance ! mais les 4 t880 auto qu'on a avec le ishift je pense est ique c'est de la marde ! je vien pour pinner un pup pis faut jdonne un pti coup de gaz ben non sa recule trop pis bang la pinne tasse a cote esti de automatic de marde !
 
persianrider said:
I'd get into the fastest manual car I could find and throw myself off a cliff ..... might as well end the suffering of being alone the right way....
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Woah, that took a dark turn...... pun not intended.

you wouldnt want to drive from coast to coast? East to west then north to south?

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:dunno:
 
CRNKY said:
For people driving daily in heavy traffic the dual clutch auto is the worse to have, every time you're inching forward it slips, the more you drive it in heavy traffic the closer you get it to fail prematurely.
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I'm lost on today's automatics, have not driven one in 24 years, my last automatic was my 84 6000STE a basic Hydra-Matic 125 3 speed. Can you elaborate on why this is so? Would this include a VW GTI DSG? Does it operate the same in manual mode?
 
NemesisBob said:
I'm lost on today's automatics, have not driven one in 24 years, my last automatic was my 84 6000STE a basic Hydra-Matic 125 3 speed. Can you elaborate on why this is so? Would this include a VW GTI DSG? Does it operate the same in manual mode?
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Because of the automated clutch pack instead of a torque converter, it slips when you are slowly inching forward, can't fully engage like it does when you take off.
Dual clutch tranny is a manual with automated clutch and pedals instead of a stick, driving it like a regular automatic is not the best way.
 
CRNKY said:
Because of the automated clutch pack instead of a torque converter, it slips when you are slowly inching forward, can't fully engage like it does when you take off.
Dual clutch tranny is a manual with automated clutch and pedals instead of a stick, driving it like a regular automatic is not the best way.
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That's interesting. So the best way to minimize wear is to leave a small gap and keep the car moving slightly rather than stop/go/stop/go like a regular manual? I'm asking cause I know a few VAG DSG owners who don't know this.
 
22REpower said:
Dumping the oil i understand it's done by under the car, removing the pan, changing transmission filter and pan gasket, but adding fluid on a automatic by under i never done it. Is there a checkhole like a manual transmission, how can you tell it's full ? I am genuily asking, i never know when it's going to serve me but last time i sit in a automatic car for a roadtrip the transmission blows up in boucherville.
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There is a fill hole in the side of the casing.
 
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