Élection Fed 2019
- Thread starter Mr Miagui
- Start date
vladjet2000
New member
it's unethical because he represents the USA as a whole.
if there's no problem with another country supporting a candidate, why the whole Russia inquiry? there's no problem there. all they did is run some ads. totally legal. anyone can run ads, right?
PsychoBandito
New member
So is it unethical Trump praises Putin?
Spaceman Spiff
Well-known member
Is there a written set of ethic rules for ex-presidents or is it a rule that you just made up? Unless he broke an actual code of conduct you're just expressing an opinion instead of a fact.
Anyone worth his salt knows that Russia didn't just run ads.
vladjet2000
New member
what I love about you leftists is that you go all the way.
is there a written rule that says the president cannot contract his own estate for a summit? no. I was able to say it's unethical though technically not wrong.
yet you cannot admit that Obama did something unethical. he's your Mohammed .
vladjet2000
New member
you didn't read the discussion and came up with that. that's the best you can do?
no, it's not unethical for Trump to praise Putin, Erdogan, Al-Asaad and 153 other leaders. it is unethical to do so at certain times though. let's see if you can figure out when!
Spaceman Spiff
Well-known member
Ah yes i forgot. Everyone who disagrees with you is a leftist.
Yes there is a written rule. It's called the emoluments clause in the US Constitution. So not only is it unethical, it's illegal.
I repeatedly asked you to provide a written rule that says an ex-president cannot support a candidate in a foreign election and you changed the subject every time instead of providing such proof.
So either provide the dawn written rule and i'll admit he did something unethical or if you can't, stop trying to make me say he broke a rule that you just made up.
And for clarification, if Bush Sr, Jr or the ghost of Ronald Reagan tweeted to say they support Andrew Scheer, i wouldn't care either. They're all private citizens with the right to free speech.
vladjet2000
New member
I think you don't understand the principle of ethics. ethics and law are 2 different things. in some cases they can overlap, i.e. killing someone is unethical and illegal at the same time, but sometimes they can differ. you can flip off your neighbor for no reason and it's legal, but not ethical. euthanasia is mostly considered ethical, but generally illegal.
doing something illegal means that the police can come after you for it. doing something unethical means you're a POS for having done it, though nobody can call the cops on you. ethics is a code of conduct, unwritten rules if you will.
I never said that Obama's endorsement is illegal. I said it's unethical. I also said that Trump's choice of location for the G7 is unethical. He has backed out of it since by the way, which I find surprising, he's not the type to admit he made a mistake.
I already explained to you how Obama is a public figure representative for the USA. he also has access to white house briefings, which are top secret. so does Bush for instance, who chose to keep quiet, same as Clinton. there are other duties, responsibilities and restrictions due to the fact that he was president. you choose to ignore this and you say I change the subject. this is the subject. just ask yourself for a second why did no other president do so? you think none of them had a preference? I'm sure they did. so why didn't they speak up?
as for the emoluments clause which you brought up, it's a thing. did you know that in Aspen, Colorado you cannot own a catapult? it's just as relevant.
here's a clause in the canadian law which Obama is flirting with again, not illegal. barely legal. https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/42-1/bill/C-76/royal-assent section 282.4
Spaceman Spiff
Well-known member
Here lies the problem. Your definition of unethical is vague and subjective. If YOU decide that it offends YOU, it's your prerogative. But don't start calling people leftists and and Obama lovers just because they don't choose to join you in your outrage.
Maybe older presidents don't endorse candidates because they never met them and don't know them? Have you ever considered that?
Are you seriously comparing an obsolete law in Colorado with an article of the Constitution that says the President can't use his position to enrich himself? It's never been used before because US Presidents were never openly corrupt until today.
Maybe older presidents don't endorse candidates because they never met them and don't know them? Have you ever considered that?
Are you seriously comparing an obsolete law in Colorado with an article of the Constitution that says the President can't use his position to enrich himself? It's never been used before because US Presidents were never openly corrupt until today.
vladjet2000
New member
ethics is defined by the population. it's not if I'm offended. it's if the majority are offended. and it's not my definition, I didn't come up with it. it's the actual definition. look it up. and the majority don't like it. there's an article in the *gasp* washington post stating that it's not a good idea. actually articles on both sides of the border and across the spectrum slam Obama for doing it. I don't see
conversely, the fact that you are happy with it doesn't make it ethical. if I hate the neighbor, and the neighbor on the other side flips him off, I'll be happy. that doesn't make the flipping off ethical.
I'm waiting for you to paste the part that shows it's illegal. you mentioned it several times. forgive me if I don't take your word for it. I took the time to research what I said, and I showed you the article of Canadian law where it shows that Obama is in a bit of a grey area.
You were right about meeting though. some did not meet ever. they can still endorse them, it's free. I remembered that Trudeau wanted to meet Hillary when she gave a speech in Ottawa and she stiffed him. Macron didn't endorse Trudeau, even though they're like brothers, and Obama endorsed Macron too. Great choice there as well, we know how that is panning out.
conversely, the fact that you are happy with it doesn't make it ethical. if I hate the neighbor, and the neighbor on the other side flips him off, I'll be happy. that doesn't make the flipping off ethical.
I'm waiting for you to paste the part that shows it's illegal. you mentioned it several times. forgive me if I don't take your word for it. I took the time to research what I said, and I showed you the article of Canadian law where it shows that Obama is in a bit of a grey area.
You were right about meeting though. some did not meet ever. they can still endorse them, it's free. I remembered that Trudeau wanted to meet Hillary when she gave a speech in Ottawa and she stiffed him. Macron didn't endorse Trudeau, even though they're like brothers, and Obama endorsed Macron too. Great choice there as well, we know how that is panning out.
Spaceman Spiff
Well-known member
I can't believe you are arguing that it's not illegal for the President of the United States to use his position to enrich himself.
If you want it in writing, here it is:
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/IF11086.pdf
Spaceman Spiff
Well-known member
If that happens, i propose that October 21st becomes a national holiday.
He still gets a crack at forming a minority government if the conservatives don't win a majority. Normally I'd say yes he resigns the leadership of the party, but since history tends to repeat itself and people love to compare him to his father you never know. PET was leader of the opposition in a minority government between his 2 mandates as PM.
vladjet2000
New member
and which part exactly is the one that he contravened? you keep beating around the bush but you can't pinpoint a phrase that says that he's in the wrong. the constitutional provisions are clear and I don't see anywhere a problem with what's going on here. quote it for me, o enlightened one.
is this a case of you being offended therefore illegal, as you were trying to pin on me? by the way, I never said obama did something illegal. I said not ethical, just like this. for the n-th time. not illegal. not ethical either. for BOTH. I know, it's hard for you to fathom Obama made a mistake. you might be well advised to stop seeing certain people as gods who can do no wrong. people make mistakes. it's normal.
Spaceman Spiff
Well-known member
If you can't discuss anything without resorting to personal attacks, don't bother.
vladjet2000
New member
PPC auront 1 siège. s'ils en ont 2, c'est un miracle.