Custom exhaust gives 25~30HP to a 1999 Maxima?

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lumlumty said:
blkcivic00 please show your graph when you are done. I hope you are not working for a vendor or affiliated with a manufacture. thanks

Yes exactly at high rpm 30 hp when compared with the graph prior to the mods.
Please if one of you guys do a dyno run before and after please do post it here.
I am not living in fantasy land and the dyno does not lie. The 30 hp is near the end of the rpm range of course is not going to give you the oohhmp that you are going to get if the 30 hp is more spread out. I hate to repeat this is a quote from him.

how big different is a 30HP? You can tell from mine and old Mini S. It is a huge different (more than 1.5sec faster), plus, again, not the whole range increase, but 30HP at 6k rpm, and this is after intake, SC pulley and exhaust, and as you know, my JCW is also a pre-CAT delete type.

No the JCW is NOT the pre -CAT detete type. It is after the Cat this is for sure just look under your car and you will see :) I am the one who picked it up and I was there when it was installed.
hmm better yet look at this link. Is that a resonator I see? it goes after the cat.

http://www.webbmotorsports.com/howto/images/fa83bc31.jpg

Please Your 30 HP increase at 6000 rpm is not a good indication. How much is gained from when the SC kicks in until the power tapers off will give you a better indication on how much you have gained with your modifications when comparing with the old graph. Just like the website you quoted from you need to look at the bigger picture. Each car is different in design, the condition of the engine, etc
I feel like I need to repeat myself but the point is in the Maxima's case the numbers are possible.

Please you are telling not to use other cars as examples yet you use the information regarding the performance figures. I just mentioned that BMW have 14 headers for the e30 m3. I didn't compare performance figures.

It really depends on the design of the engine. If the oem components on the car is good to begin with then your gains will be less.

Lastly the numbers on the movat site is based on a manual car I have automatic so the gearing is different 5 speed vs 4 speed. The gains on my car might be less who knows. All that I know is that other people have similar experiences. Man just hear me out. The truth is in the sites you showed me.
I never said that my car experienced the same gains but the parts mentioned do have the capability to get the results shown in the movat site
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dude i'm a Plumber...plus doing a dyno before and after is 200$+...i'll just do an after dyno..200$ maybe nothing to some ppl but not to me..i don't wanna sound cheap but i rather keep 200$+ in my pocket...:bigup:
 
Hey man no problem we know the base line anyways. If your engine was kept in good order the graph on motorvat is good enough as a baseline to compare it with. Thanks

The "usable" hp I am implying to is the horsepower that you will give you the noticeable gains. Come on now get real 30 hp at the end of the rev range for only about 4 to 5 hundred rpm is not going to give you the much especially on the part of the curve where power is tapering off. Don't forget this engine is design more for low to mid range. Now give the car 30 hp across 4000 to 6000 rpm and you will notice it even more. Exhausts do not make horse power they just complement what the engine is capable of. Just look at the curve at 6 000 the engine is already making 10 horse power less then what it was making when compared with the sweet spot. From 6 000 and up the engine is actually losing power already. The rate of acceleration is already tapering off so 30 HP is NOT going to give you much in terms of improvement when compared with 30 hp from 4 000 to 6 000. If the hp is sustained let alone increase from around 5 500 rpm and up to 6500 then the power would be more noticeable. The only thing that this 30 hp is going to give is to slow down the rate of decrease in power. From 4 000 to 5 500 the increase is more noticeable when compared with the base line graph.
Sorry for using laymen terms if you want to get technical about here is the explanation. This should be the way you should analyze the graph.
So 30 hp when the engine is already losing power is not as important as the average of 18 hp from 4 000 to 6 000 rpm. So 30 hp is definitely acceptable but not really noticeable from the seat of the pants dyno. This also goes back to my thing with the design of the engine and so on and so forth. So don't look at it as impossible. Just ask someone that knows about tuning to read this let them tell you. I am telling you the fruit is on the tree. All you need is to climb the tree to get the fruit. lol
 
lumlumty said:
Hey man no problem we know the base line anyways. If your engine was kept in good order the graph on motorvat is good enough as a baseline to compare it with. Thanks

The "usable" hp I am implying to is the horsepower that you will give you the noticeable gains. Come on now get real 30 hp at the end of the rev range for only about 4 to 5 hundred rpm is not going to give you the much especially on the part of the curve where power is tapering off. Don't forget this engine is design more for low to mid range. Now give the car 30 hp across 4000 to 6000 rpm and you will notice it even more. Exhausts do not make horse power they just complement what the engine is capable of. Just look at the curve at 6 000 the engine is already making 10 horse power less then what it was making when compared with the sweet spot. From 6 000 and up the engine is actually losing power already. The rate of acceleration is already tapering off so 30 HP is NOT going to give you much in terms of improvement when compared with 30 hp from 4 000 to 6 000. If the hp is sustained let alone increase from around 5 500 rpm and up to 6500 then the power would be more noticeable. The only thing that this 30 hp is going to give is to slow down the rate of decrease in power. From 4 000 to 5 500 the increase is more noticeable when compared with the base line graph.
Sorry for using laymen terms if you want to get technical about here is the explanation. This should be the way you should analyze the graph.
So 30 hp when the engine is already losing power is not as important as the average of 18 hp from 4 000 to 6 000 rpm. So 30 hp is definitely acceptable but not really noticeable from the seat of the pants dyno. This also goes back to my thing with the design of the engine and so on and so forth. So don't look at it as impossible. Just ask someone that knows about tuning to read this let them tell you. I am telling you the fruit is on the tree. All you need is to climb the tree to get the fruit. lol
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ok, you are kind of confusing me, so 18hp gain from all rev but suddenly a jump of another 12HP within the 6K and 6.2K rpm? In the dyno graph that from the vendor, it shows it is a power gain from all the way 15HP > 18 > 20 > 25 >30 then drop back near redline, which is a normal graph. I don't see where that 18HP jump to 30HP area at all.

man you really confuse me.

And since when you become a tuner expert? Not try to do a personal attack, but I never knew you study in mechanic field.
 
look at the graph. from 5 500 rpm the engine is already losing power so the rate of acceleration is already decreasing. look at 6 000 the engine is only making about 160 hp. Compare this with 5 300 rpm the engine is making 170 hp.
The 30 hp is only going to slow down the rate of which this engine already losing power. Compare the baseline hp graph with the "tuned" graph. to another person that knows how to read the graph let them analyze them.
 
i asked the guys at technika for a $$quote for a before and after dyno...so if its a good deal i will try to do it...but if not im doing the after dyno only..
 
blkcivic00 said:
i asked the guys at technika for a $$quote for a before and after dyno...so if its a good deal i will try to do it...but if not im doing the after dyno only..
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that will be great, just want to make sure you will provide us a stock vs custom exhaust dyno chat. Thanks. And we are talking about 30HP different after switching from the stock exhaust to the custom exhaust only, no matter what rev range. *tu*
 
lumlumty said:
" am I really living in fantasy land" with no proof?
The dyno graph shows improvement at higher rpm.
So from 0 to 60 half a second is about half a car length if you talk to any racer that is a lot.
Like I say before it really depends on the car. Not a yes or no answer all the time.
the 30 hp gains are not usable hp. The facts are there just read it. I am trying to be politically correct but you just don't admit it. no one is always right. In this case the proof is in the numbers on the graph and judging from your g-tech .5 seconds
Which is half a car legnth is about15 to 20 hp increase. This proof is also substantiated wit hthe graph on the motorvat site 18 hp from 4 000 to 6000 rpm. so don't even quote theoutsider.

Because what he said is right. 18 hp is on par to what theoutsider is saying.
I mean what the hell can 30 extra hp do when it is only 500 rpm until cutoff?
What is more important is the 4 000 to 6000 gain. So don't even concentrate on the 30 hp anymore. I have stated this from my first quote it is the average from 4000 to 6000.
Is this this enough proof? Please read your web sites you quoted in its entirety, the motorvate site and yes the comments from people who contributed in this discussion. I am just trying to be politically correct here. What is right or wrong the reader will need to figure out.
No one is living in fantasy land here. 18 hp across the board is a reasonable gain. The 30 hp from 6000 to 6 400 rpm is all fluff which is what I said before.
Not that simple right?
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When I said 15 to 20 hp I didnt even looked at any dino chart...I was just referring what I have read on www.maxima.org on the 4th generation.

The vq35de is mainly based on the vq30de and when you put a whole exhaust system and a berk short ram intake you barely get 20 to 30hp in gain.More like at best 22 to 25hp that are usable...But then again when you put exhaust systems on v6s you might get some extra hp but loose some low end torque wich is REALLY usefull on a daily drive car...By switching the stock intake box on a 02-03(5.5 gen) maxima you get like 12hp but you loose about the same amount of low end torque. High end is sometimes improved like you said but its not really useful.

I think the best way to improve vq30de performances is to strap on a stillen supercharger kit.Its soft on the engine's interns and you get a little boost of power.

Theres also the possibility of swapping a vq35de or even a vq30de-k wich puts out 222hp(227hp on the 25th aniversary edition) at the crank.Theres so many possibilities...You can also attach a afc controller on the vq30de and tune the car for best performances.An afc on a 3.5 works even better since that engine tends to run a little too rich sometimes.

Pour repondre a celui qui demandait une clarification a savoir c'est quoi la difference entre 18hp qui sont utilisables et 30hp qui ne le sont pas et bien tout est question de power band. Chaque moteur a un power band different...Par exemple si ton moteur offre une courbe de torque flat ca veut alors dire que le torque disponible est tres bon a tous regime moteur possible.

A quoi ca sert d avoir 30hp de plus entre 6000 et 6400rpm(cut off)???Ca vaut **** all...tandis que si tu as 18hp entre 4000 et 6000rmp de plus et bien comme je dis c est bcp plus utilisable..Cbien de temps tu reste entre 6000rmp et 6400rpm?A peu pres pas!Donc a quoi bon l'avoir?C est useless!
 
lumlumty said:
look at the graph. from 5 500 rpm the engine is already losing power so the rate of acceleration is already decreasing. look at 6 000 the engine is only making about 160 hp. Compare this with 5 300 rpm the engine is making 170 hp.
The 30 hp is only going to slow down the rate of which this engine already losing power. Compare the baseline hp graph with the "tuned" graph. to another person that knows how to read the graph let them analyze them.
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x2 c est pas tout d avoir un gain de 30hp..faut etre capable de bien l utiliser sinon ca donne rien..Bien souvent tu cree des troues dans ton power band et c est presque pire!
 
um, after all sum up theory, it means the "30HP" is "unusable", on the other hand, it will never appear. So why promote with that number? When I talk to Lumlunty, why we discuss this is because when I said, no way just an exhaust gives 30HP, and his answer is "Why not"... But now suddenly he said it means yea, it has 30HP gains, but it will never appear... Ok, if it will never be use, why tell me like to show off? It sounds more like a guy tells me he has 10 millions at bank, but he can only use 10dollars per day, which on the other hand, means nothing.

I am confuse that, if this is true, how can you tell someone that, yea, this mod gives 30HP but it will never happen... But why not just say yea, it gives a good 18HP gain after intake and exhaust, which sound much more reasonable, but you didn't.

Like the previous 1997 Maxima dyno graph(196~197WHP) I post before, the guy got almost all kind of NA mods that you can imagine into his Maxima, and he shows a good gain of 25~30HP, which is very true and I never see a Maxima owners said "I still got 30HP but it will never come up you know......"

Btw, if it gives 20HP from an intake and exhaust, it is very reasonable and believable, but what we argued was "30HP gain from just the Y pipe and exhaust " as I post on the topic, which is more like an advertising than real.
 
Thanks "the theoutsider" that's what I have been advocating all this time....
Finally someone can say something reasonable.
Now to my friend:
I never advertise to people that it has 30 hp that's first
second: your the one that is not hearing me out I explained with factual technical information but you didn't seem to acknowledge that I was not giving fictional dream like explanation which you seem to claim. Obviously it is not the problem of the explanation..
Second I never go to people and say wow I gained 30 hp and wave a flag to advertise this and say "wow I gained 30 hp". You were asking me if it is possible.
Well those are the facts and the dyno charts prove it. Honestly the guy doesn't have that much modifications.
I have check other dyno sheets and most people yet closely to those numbers.
People say many things and you need to understand why and not jump to conclusions. This is the only conclusion I can draw from this discussion backed up by facts.
Anyways I am not peed off of this discussion but rather you accusing me of saying that what I say is not factual. Just hear me out for a second.
Thanks
 
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lumlumty said:
Thanks "the theoutsider" that's what I have been advocating all this time....
Finally someone can say something reasonable.
Now to my friend:
I never advertise to people that it has 30 hp that's first
second: your the one that is not hearing me out I explained with factual technical information but you didn't seem to acknowledge that I was not giving fictional dream like explanation which you seem to claim. Obviously it is not the problem of the explanation..
Second I never go to people and say wow I gained 30 hp and wave a flag to advertise this and say "wow I gained 30 hp". You were asking me if it is possible.
Well those are the facts and the dyno charts prove it. Honestly the guy doesn't have that much modifications.
I have check other dyno sheets and most people yet closely to those numbers.
People say many things and you need to understand why and not jump to conclusions. This is the only conclusion I can draw from this discussion backed up by facts.
Anyways I am not peed off of this discussion but rather you accusing me of saying that what I say is not factual. Just hear me out for a second.
Thanks
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Lol man, I don't know this is still up and up again... Actually, can you show us other dyno sheets with just intake and that Y pipe plus exhaust that give 190WHP to a 1997 to 1999 Maxima? Since it is so good and popular, there should be tons of Maixma that show 190WHP with just intake and exhaust.

By save up a bit of time, here I found a dyno of a 97 Maxima with intake and y pipe (http://www.boostaholic.com/maxima/dyno/index.html). It is a real world personal dyno sheet but not the one from the vendor. The combination of intake and exhaust gives around 12 WHP gain, and power drops near 5.5k RPM, and never shown any unusable 30WHP as mentioned, which I found is totally reasonable.

Another similar example I can compare is the AEM intake; as most know most air intake system in most cars are very restrictive, and AEM did prove their intake can get you 15 ~20 HP with just their intake by their dyno graph, but it end up to give none to maybe 5 HP max in the real world.

By the way, I think I have post enough information, (include links with information and real personal dyno graph"s" not the vendor one) here to prove what I meant, if anyone still think they still can get that "Unusable 30HP" from just intake and custom exhaust, good for you. Conclusion with results gives you the real idea, but not just personal facts or opinions can give you anymore HP.

As for lumlumty, this is a technical topic, as I mentioned before, not anything personal, but if you find it gives you hard feeling, you can PM or call me instead of posting your feeling here.

PS: Please note that those wheel rolling dyno is not accurate, if you want to know why, please search on google.
 
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