old camaros?

Status
Not open for further replies.
AC22

AC22

Legacy Member
when drifting first got "main stream" in Japan, people were buying up old camaros (80's) like mad. I too once had this car and i must say that out of any rwd drive car that i have driven (from 350z to amg to 240 etc) that it was the easiest car control with the tail out. any time, what ever angle, what ever speed.


my question is this. why did the car loose popularity? and why did the silvia become the ruler of this world?

was it because its great to "get the tail out" on the street or just to have fun with but at high speeds its not as good as say a s13?

was it because of improper balance?

was its because it doesnt look nearly as good as a silvia?
 
Pcq c'est pas JDM... et si c'est pas JDM... c'est pas cool!
Sérieusement... c'est surement parce que c'est dépassé de mode. C'est comme ces temps ci.. ca dure 4-5 ans pis après ca change carément!
 
Moi perso, la 240SX m'interessais seulement parce quelle coutait pas trop cher en essence... c'est juste sa... car une mustang ou une camaro/trans am, sa vide un compte assez vite.
 
ziboy said:
Moi perso, la 240SX m'interessais seulement parce quelle coutait pas trop cher en essence... c'est juste sa... car une mustang ou une camaro/trans am, sa vide un compte assez vite.
Click to expand...
not really? a 240sx won't get much better milage...??
 
Silvia S13 said:
Isnt teh old school camaro a bulky car to drift???? i think it would be all over the road... :dunno:
Click to expand...

well keep in mind that i am refering to being on the street as suposed to a track or an organised even but the camaro is amazing. the control is second nature. very predictable car. but thats at "low" speeds.
 
ac22 said:
well keep in mind that i am refering to being on the street as suposed to a track or an organised even but the camaro is amazing. the control is second nature. very predictable car. but thats at "low" speeds.
Click to expand...

First of all, the camaro most likely is not 'drifting' but 'powersliding'. Its eay to get sideway in a car with tons of low end grunt, but to actually drift you need a real good suspension set up, and something of a good track car.

Not to mention that the camaro's front wheels won't turn nearly as far as the more popular drift cars. Obviously if you can't crank the wheels as far, you can't get a far sideways, and you have a harder time recover from high angles.

For example, when Rhys Millen (I think) decided to drift the GTO, they had to heavily modify the front suspension/ steerign rack etc. so they could get as far sideways as the Japanese cars.

This is not to say that you can't drift FR american cars, but they do have some differences. More stock power (especially low end) but suspension set ups not nearly as competent.
 
I raced tons of camaro of all generations, its true that the 70-81 models were easy to control in a slide, but they are way too heavy to become good performers( late 70s models tips the scales at 3900 pounds dry ) on a track for road racing or drifting to my opinion, you better star with a 3rd generation(82-92) hard top car,and you will end up with a chassis with lots of potential.(much better chassis and lighter)4 th gen is also a good option (a bit large and heavy but stiffer chassic in stock form.

I still have one race chassis for sale in the domestic muscle classified section, it used to be a road race SCCA championship car , but can be built for drift easily, a well set up 3rd generation camaro can be driven looking thru the passenger window, sliding in extreme angle and still be saved.But the are not considered "trendy" so you wont see much in drifts events I think.

for the budget aspect I dont think a v8 rwd car would be much more expensive to maintain and drift seriously than any other JDM car with serious mods. Drifting seriously is probably just like any other motorsports ,meaning you will put all of your energy and money on the car to reach your goal,V8 or not, its going to be freaking expensive!!!

For the JDM thing I think its normal for the drift crowd to prefer JDM stuff over domestic, since drifting is coming from mostly japan, all the vids or footage or big drift events are mostly from japan and obviously with japanese cars , Its just like here in america
we invented the drag races, and 60 years after you see Imports starting to compete in
America in Drag racing. It will take a while for the drift crowd to appreciate domestic cars in their playground but we live in america and there is a bunch of very potent domestics thats could be cheaper to drift than some JDM,so I think is the next few years you will see more and more domestics drifting ....

excluding cars is not an option for drifters if they want to see their discipline get bigger in the US and Canada.
 
Peteracer said:
the 70-81 models were easy to control in a slide, but they are way too heavy to become good performers( late 70s models tips the scales at 3900 pounds dry ) on a track for road racing or drifting to my opinion, you better star with a 3rd generation(82-92) hard top car,and you will end up with a chassis with lots of potential.(much better chassis and lighter)4 th gen is also a good option (a bit large and heavy but stiffer chassic in stock form.

QUOTE]

I am talking about the 82-92 body style. *tu*
Click to expand...
 
SOHC240 said:
First of all, the camaro most likely is not 'drifting' but 'powersliding'. Its eay to get sideway in a car with tons of low end grun
Click to expand...

you missed the question. the question is not if the car can drift (because its a proven fact :dunno: . i know its not a silvia but it can "drift" ) but why its not still used.

im actually curious. im not a fan of the car and am actually looking for the technical reasons and what is needed to build a drift car that are not possible on the camaro. whats the diference?

again, im not a fan of the car . dont get me wrong, i like it but im not defending it or anything.
 
Last edited:
J'm'était toufours fait dire que des camaro et trans am ca tenait pas pentoute

Mais c'est surtout en rapport avec la rapartition des masses: les silvia ont une répartition de 52%-48% avant/arrière sa les rend plus stables dont plus faciles a prévoir et controller durant la drift
 
Le gars qui te dit que ca tien pas y connais rien, les camaro et trans am de 82 en montant , ont une tenue de route TRES respectable sur route et sur piste, jai vu plusieurs camaro completement stock faire .89 G gauche droite sur un skidpad de 200 pieds,
ce qui equivaut ou mieux que plusieurs voitures sports actuelles.

Le chassis que je vend roulais plus de 1,2 G sur pneus DOT de 16 pouces.

ce sont des vehicules plein de potentiel avec une tenue de route remarquable.

Peter
 
T'as l'air de connaitre ces char là toi est-ce que tu sais c'est quoi la répartition des masses juste pour vérifier si ma théorie est bonne ou si j'me plante?

Pcq si le char grip a fond mais qu'il est pas controlable un coup perdu (ex.mr2 ou n'importe quel midship) sa fait de cette voiture une mauvaise machine de drift ou la stabilité,le controle en dérapage est essentiel.

Redonne des info et de tes expérience stp


Oups j'avais pas lu ton premeir message ca répond en partie a ma question mais as-tu déjà drifter avec une camaro voir comme marco pi haig?
Ca tellement l'air lourd sté char là sa doit etre dur controller plusieur fishtail de suite!!
 
Pour la repartition des masses, une camaro de 3ieme generation (82-92) se situe a 57-43 ce qui ne semble pas l'ideal pour le drift , mais la on parle dorigine, ce qui peut etre modifie selon les besoins.

Lorsque que je parle de tenue de route,ceci ne sapplique pas necessairement au drifting, je nai jamais fait de drifting a proprement dit et je ne peux savoir si ce chassis sauras etre competitif en drift.

Cela dit, en general lorsque lon parle dune voiture qui pardonne les erreurs ,on peux generalement penser a une voiture qui aurais un certain potentiel de dirft, et la camaro est une de celles la.Avoir plus de temps a consacrer a ca , je garderais peut etre mon chassis de camaro pour faire quelques evenements de drift afin de prouver ma theorie, mais mon emplois du temps ne me le permet pas.

Comme j'ai dit je n'ai jamais fait de drift a proprement dit.J'ai ete pilote de formule et de routier(SCCA) pendant environ 10 ans,aux US et en europe,maintenant je ne fait que quelques evenements par annee pour conserver mes privileges de licence cest tout, la passion ses estompee tout simplement.

Durant ces annees jai eu mon race shop fabricant des chassis pour les sprint cars et supermods americains,moteurs etc ... et jai travaille au developement dune bonne 20aine de chassis de camaro 3 ieme generation pour des serie comme SCCA A/S et S/S, et celles ci saverent tres performantes en circuit routier ,beneficiant de toutes les annes des series GM players motorsports,firestone firehawk,et enduro series de toutes sortes.

en configuration dorigine les camaro et firebird son dapres moi trop lourdes pour vraiment tirer leur epingle du jeu en drift ,car le poid et la repartition des masses viendras gacher une peux les transitions laterales, mais ca peux salleger beacoup.

mon chassis de course tout monte avec fluides 2800 livres(1230 kilos) avec pilote.Ca roulais un petit V8 335 pc, de 600 hp qui virais 7800 rpm. Ca aurais pu saverer interessant de voir ca en drift, mais cest sur qu'on est loin des chiffres dune camaro d'origine qui pese 1475 kilos et environ 240 hp stock.

Tout ca pour dire que jusqua un certain niveau de competition ,nimporte quel chassis peut avoir du potentiel... le but cest de samuser sans y perdre sa chemise...non?
 
ac22 said:
when drifting first got "main stream" in Japan, people were buying up old camaros (80's) like mad. I too once had this car and i must say that out of any rwd drive car that i have driven (from 350z to amg to 240 etc) that it was the easiest car control with the tail out. any time, what ever angle, what ever speed.
Click to expand...


I've heard it alot too....

When the Japanese drivers first went to the D1 in the US, they thought that they'd be Camaro's, Corvette's and Mustangs more than Japanese cars.

1- The reason why the S13 took over in Japan is only because of the availability (SP/CHK) of the parts (being a ''domestic chasis'' for them).

2- 5 spd V8 Camaro/Firebird/Trans-Am are super hard to find. (here and there)

3- The view most people have of that kind of cars here (think about Mullets) and there heritage in Drag racing (even if the Camaro's and mustangs were design as Road racer's in the 70's)

4- Its easier to learn in smaller vehicule, thus the AE86/S13 popularity.

5- RWD, Turbo, Light...and cheap. Thats why I think the S13 is so popular all over the world for drifting.


my 2 cents...
 
Trueno said:
I've heard it alot too....

When the Japanese drivers first went to the D1 in the US, they thought that they'd be Camaro's, Corvette's and Mustangs more than Japanese cars.

1- The reason why the S13 took over in Japan is only because of the availability (SP/CHK) of the parts (being a ''domestic chasis'' for them).

2- 5 spd V8 Camaro/Firebird/Trans-Am are super hard to find. (here and there)

3- The view most people have of that kind of cars here (think about Mullets) and there heritage in Drag racing (even if the Camaro's and mustangs were design as Road racer's in the 70's)

4- Its easier to learn in smaller vehicule, thus the AE86/S13 popularity.

5- RWD, Turbo, Light...and cheap. Thats why I think the S13 is so popular all over the world for drifting.


my 2 cents...
Click to expand...

Great information. thanks *tu*
 
malheureusement je sais pas comment poster un video car j'ai sur mon ordi un vid d'une ae86 qui drift en race contre une viper qui drift aussi bien et même plus!pourtant personne ne se douterais qu'une viper pouais suivre les mouvement d'une ae86!!!!si quelqu'un peu maider a hoster cela faite moi signe!
 
Trueno said:
5- RWD, Turbo, Light...and cheap. Thats why I think the S13 is so popular all over the world for drifting.
Click to expand...
Not sure I agree with the turbo part. I'm not a drifter...but I do have tons of track experience (as an instructor with the BMW CCA, BMW CC, PCA, SOCCI, etc.). I used to track normally aspirated, RWD cars (mostly BMW) and now I've got a turbo, AWD car. Here's what I've noticed...

While the turbo is nice in terms of how much power you've got on tap (340 hp and 340 lbs/ft in my case ;)), your throttle inputs get exaggerated. This makes throttle steering very tricky.

When a powerful NA car is drifting in a turn, a slight lift and you can easily tighten your line. When you lift in a turbo car, the boost suddenly drops off and the car responds much more than you anticipate. It's tricky to balance. The throttle sensitivity of a powerful NA car is hard to match with a turbo. You can compensate with LFB (if you're comfortable with that technique), but it's not ideal.

Emre
 
I still want to know what is the difference between "drifting" and "power sliding"

If I remember my Drift bible correctly, "powersliding" is the very same as "Power Over"...

And frankly, 57/43 is much, much better than I expected for the 3rd Gen Camaro. Development for road racing on this car is phenomenal. They were raced everywhere in North America. But I would imagine that it's sheer size will cause them to be hated in Drift Battles. Hated by the guys in the other car, that is! :D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top